Fraud talks about bad and conflicting design in ss13 and bee

[VictorPride]

@Caecilius

A skill system that adapts as the round is ongoing. Servers like Bay have mechanical limitations on actions.

Skillchips are a fine solution to this imo.

It strikes the balance of being able to soft/hard-lock people out of jobs outside of their speciality, but unlike trainable skills still allows people to get a job change at the HOP when needed or allows enterprising antags to fake a job.

The exact capabilities can be added to over time once the basis is implemented.

@wisakedjak

The game is set up around atangonists/game modes, and everyone is fucking around in the background. The kill objectives are here to involve random people in the game.

Think of SS13 like a complex game of werewolf/mafia/whatnot. The other players have roles, jobs and skills, but it’s the antagonists/werewolves that the game relies on and the ones that move the game forward. Or think Among Us.

Is Among Us about the crewies and doing minigame?

The difference is that SS13 is more set up around the crew. Green shifts happen (often), and the implication that MRP crew are supposed to have is that antags are very unlikely, which is why it starts off on green alert.

Jobs here are not mini-games, they’re deep and fun in and of themselves. Among Us is simply not able to replicate it due to the sheer amount of effort it takes to build an interesting and satisfying game loop.

@wisakedjak

It shouldn’t be a big part of the game. Combat should not be a focus of the game and, I can go as far as to say, instastun weapons and instakill/2hitcrit weapons suit this game better than the slow, ‘fair’ combat the game currently has.

Why is that? Simply because being robust and good at this game is not about winning combat. It’s not about clicking better and having the best mix of chems to outheal the slow damage your opponent does. A good antagonist is able to play the game of deception, stealth and 4D chess to dispose their targets, take out their objectives and leave unscathed.

It’s not about combat, it shouldn’t be about combat and combat should not be a long paced, ‘enjoyable’ experience.

Seriously, I feel Among Us does SS13 better than SS13 does SS13 at this point.

This again refers back to the previous point about the jobs themselves being interesting, and the antags just adding to the experience instead of being the entire thing.

People enjoy their job and the roleplay they get whilst doing it. An antag murdering them takes away from the enjoyment of their job much more greatly that it does compared to dying in Among Us, which is full of tedious mini-games whilst you run around paranoid and scared always. To keep playing your job you want to be alive, which is why players prefer to not die instantly.

Also time spent dead is far longer in SS13 than Among Us, so it’s only natural to want to have a better chance of surviving combat.

[TooGrand]

@Francinum

I think after playing this game for 7-8 years I know more than the idiot who’s not solely responsible, but bears a non-zero share of the blame for a noticeable drop in player quality…

Well fuck you too asshole

[J.I.JOE]

Obviously the solution is for beestation to create an HRP server. Mrp is often at max pop so maybe theres enough players to support one.

[TheMaggotGuy]

in case you aren’t joking, what makes you think people will switch servers? most people would be much happier under the lrp ruleset, yet they don’t move. What makes you think people will move to HRP?

[J.I.JOE]

Its called experimentation, try it and see what happens.

[anon82996225]

Everyone is mad at Frank for telling the truth.

[Kontaminant]

I’m pretty sure the truth is not in claiming superiority because you adopted a hobby sooner than others. You can’t expect new players to treat a game you’ve played for nearly a decade the same way you treat it.

[aguyiguess]

This probably sounds really stupid coming from me but I kinda gotta agree with fran here. I’ve noticed that servers on the hub have a lot less rp and more people playing with the mindset of grief funny than muh sekrit servers do. The server I decided to go to after I stopped playing bee had a really good level of rp until they went on the hub, it’s been a few months since that happened and the playerbase of said server is comparable to tg nowadays. I’m not saying that all ssethtiders are bad but a fair few are. In fact, most of my favorite players came in 2019 and I did too. I’m just saying that judging by what I’ve seen in videos and what I’ve seen since I joined the game rp really has decreased quite a bit. Although again, I joined in 2019 so I dont know exactly what ss13 used to be like

[Ruko]

Time for Ruko to get lynched

I’m a relative newcomer to the game, but I don’t share the “Ssethtider mentality”. There’s nothing wrong with causing some chaos, being wacky and memey and just having a good time with others in the realm of whimsy. But you have to understand that there is no CORRECT way to enjoy a game. Everyone has at least a slightly different mindset they bring to the table.

As has been beaten to death - we have two servers for a reason. One is dedicated to wacky shenanigans and playing the game as a game. The other is dedicated to roleplaying and immersing yourself into a space station where all hell may or may not break loose. All I can ask is that players be respectful of those that want to enjoy the game their way and pick the server that’s already dedicated to what you want out of the game, instead of forcing the server that isn’t to conform to what you want at the expense of the players already there for what’s on the tin.

I became an admin in response to the flood of horrible RP and players to Sage. Over the year that I’ve been an admin I’ve come to like and respect what Golden stood for before it got dumped into Sage, and dedicated time to improving the conditions on both. I’m not here to tell you that your way of playing the game is wrong, but I am here to tell you that you’re on the wrong server for it and your server is right next door if you’re trying to force the Sseth chaos onto Sage.

We have two servers for two different mentalities. Stop trying to act like the mentality that isn’t yours is the wrong way to play the game.

[wisakedjak]

Several jobs, like virologist, would have to be entirely deleted along with their associated mechanics.

I get where this is coming from and why, but also I wouldn’t like these to go away. For me, they add to the complexity and wackiness of SS13. It’s what makes SS13 work.

It wouldn’t be an offence.

Depends on the admin I suppose… And whether someone ahelps it.

[Caecilius]

@wisakedjak

Depends on the admin I suppose… And whether someone ahelps it.

I don’t think you quite understand what I meant.

It would not be against the rules for you to commit murder/robbery etc. Admin interference would be rare, and limited to stopping mass grief, such as maxcaps/plasmaflooding, ERP or spam. Hence the need for a different server.

[wisakedjak]

People enjoy their job and the roleplay they get whilst doing it. An antag murdering them takes away from the enjoyment of their job much more greatly that it does compared to dying in Among Us, which is full of tedious mini-games whilst you run around paranoid and scared always. To keep playing your job you want to be alive, which is why players prefer to not die instantly.

It gives me the impression that you believe antags on SS13 take away from the fun and enjoyment of the rounds than they add to it, which imo is wrong.

Antags are not an ‘addition’ to the experience. Everything else is an addition to the game mode, and the game should revolve around the antag. You are an engineer to fix the station from the damage the antag did, not fuck off and build your own shuttle. You are a medic to mitigate the damage an antagonist did, not sell drugs and make introcate factories.

In a way, I agree with Cae that things like Viro, Xeno, Genetics, etc have no purpose other to distract from the core experience. SS13 was never intended to be a crafting game, it was never a spaceship building sim, it’s a space traitor game.

I’d like to add, the whole reason ‘powergaming’ mechanics and introcate self antag mechanics exist is not for griefers to have a way to majorgrief, but for antags to have a way to deal serious damage on the station. The reason things like overloading the grid, shocking doors, safeties on defibrilators and plasma floods exist. If the game was centered about doing your job on a space station, then I don’t see a reason these should exist.

Also time spent dead is far longer in SS13 than Among Us, so it’s only natural to want to have a better chance of surviving combat.

Maybe, but SS13 has ghost roles, midround antags/spawns, and many more way to mitigate this. They are meant to be a way to keep doing your job (lavaland base - medical, pod people - bio, golems - mining) on the side, without being on station and partaking in the game (because you were removed from it).

I don’t think you quite understand what I meant.

Yea you’re right.

I think bee should split servers based on action to accomodate different people: The high action server is what LRP/MRP is, with traitors, nukies, wizard, antags can murderbone, etc, and a low action server, where it’s more leisure, more doing your job, the common game mode isgreenshift, with rarely IAA, sometimes traitor, rarely cult.

[michiru2]

none of this matters

nobody’s going to do anything, nothing is gonna happen, everyone’s gonna blame everyone else for it and we’re all going to feel empty because of it

[GuardianCZ]

Dont we already feel empty?

[Caecilius]

The good news: Someone has already taken my idea and made it into a server.

The bad news: It’s run by a notorious griefer, who has flooded it with reddit memes to appeal to reddit. And furry content. And probably lots and lots of racism.

Space Station 13 (reddit.com)

[michiru2]

also it’s brazillian

[GuardianCZ]

Accept Brazil leave Bee

[Froststahr]

It’s a pretty bad sign that like half of the commentors are newly made reddit accounts lmao

[Xlyana]

is that actually popbob lmao

[J.I.JOE]

Hey hey people, Ssseth tider here.