Day ban opinon (Not exactly an appeal)

Ban Appeals Game Ban Appeals
1

Edit - Round details:

Ban Date: 2023-11-23 22:37:16

Expire Date: 2023-11-24 22:37:16

Round: 46710

Server: All

Admin: tamumus

Role: Server

Hi there,

So I got a day ban, and I can see why the admin has done so and am happy to wait it out. It’s more so a question/confirmation that what I have done was ban-worthy. I’ll attach bwonk chat also.

Will put a TL;DR:

I started my round at the beginning as a cargo tech, the only one for a bit, on corg station. All of the lights were broken and I was actively using the cargo Tech Fab to print light tubes and try to fix a part of the station. An assistant came by and constantly cancelled my prints to try print 50+ flashlights to drop around the station. We had an (in character might I add) argument, back and forth. I shoved him, he shoved me. Sec was there and told him to stop as heads of staff said not to print flashlights and just fix the lights. After sec left he then (i hope in character) had a sexist rant and told my character to put in a tampon and other stuff (cant remember off the top of my head).

So due to my low moodlet already dropping further, I played in character getting really mad at him so I punched him for saying the stuff he did, to which he stabbed me in the eye with a screwdriver. I reported him to sec who came by, printed some bulbs and said “I’m just following the HoS’s orders” and left me there bleeding after being stabbed in the eye.

He kept antagonizing my character so I grabbed a drill and beat him down in a “Blind rage” (In character). My moodlet was in the insanity area so once I got arrested I was crying in prison and hitting myself due to feeling like I messed up, lost my job, ruined my life.

I got taken to medbay to heal up, sec continued to ignore me, so my character snapped, i vowed vengance on the assistant that drove me insane and the HoS.

I spent a good chunk of time running through maints, then back to cargo to get food and such to which another cargo tech who joined late told me he could get guns. I wasn’t actively looking for them, I just wanted to cause a hastle and get arrested again possibly as the RP was fun.

I thought the gun thing was funny and as I was already in the depths of insanity I agreed and he ordered them and sent me on my way. There was a flamethrower that came with it, I will note I have never used a flamethrower before so I wasn’t aware of the damage that they cause. I went after the assistant to which sec came along, I messed up using the bolt action gun and panicked and swapped to the flamethrower. I did die with it, but also took out more people than intended. I agree, fully huge dick move and I did not mean for that. I thought it would just set them on fire not… cause what did happen to happen.

I was trying to roleplay in my character, I didn’t use insanity to be like “Hee-hoo I’m insane and going to kill EVERYONE!!!”. I just wanted to take that personal vengeance on the officer that dismissed my attacker, and my attacker.

Like I said, I’m fully compliant with waiting out this ban, it’s only a day and I understand the flamethrower REALLY did cause much more damage and chaos than I thought it would. I would just like to get an opinion on it, as I personally feel like a ban for being in character (not actively power gaming or looking to craft weapons to take them down or bomb them) was a bit over the top, but if it’s obviously agreed from multiple views, I’m happy to see that I was in the wrong.

TL;DR - Roleplayed my character who was antagonised and abused, an antag in my department gave me guns to take vengance.

Bwonk paste (Read bottom to top):

 


PM from You to Administrator

: I was trying to do my job, and i got antagonised, verbly and physically, and sec done nothing and my moodlet went down. 




22:36:19 

PM from You to Administrator

: Could I request someone else to verify the day ban? I understand your reasoning but it was played out over the whole shift. 




22:35:49 

PM from Administrator to You

: I was roleplaying, I was following my moodlet and going insane. I was going to off myself (best way I could) until they just pretended they didn't care. I wanted to keep my job, in character I was screaming "He's ruining me, my job, help me". I didn't intend to *get* guns, I actively was just looking for a way to probably get caught by them till the traitor offered me them. Flamethrower, yeah like I said, never knew it was that bad. Apologies.  




22:34:53 

PM from You to Administrator

: So..come back in a day after giving our rules another read, please  




22:34:17 

PM from You to Administrator

: Yeah. Right. What you did is 100% self antag, I can see where it is coming from but it's totally not allowed. Rule 1,1) You must roleplay. You're a professional working for a major corporation. Act like you want to keep your job. rule 2)(?|F) powergaming. Rule 8) grief (flamethrower fucked atmos and husked officers)  




22:33:05 

PM from You to Administrator

: also, sidenote, never used a flamethrower before, never knew it was that strong. So that was a big mybad 




22:31:32 

PM from You to Administrator

: believe it or not, short story. TL;DR - I went insane from lack of sec help, swore I would get them, and I got assisted by a T 




22:30:58 

PM from You to Administrator

: SO! Start of the round, I spawned hungry and had a low moodlet, an assistant was antagonising me and winding me up, in character I shoved them from the techfab as they kept printing 50+ flashlights while I was trying to repair Cargo lighting. Head of Services told people to *not* and even sec came by to tell them. I shoved them about, we fought, i got stabbed in the eye, sec done nothing. My moodlet was then in the "insanity function" so I spent I went crazy and fought the assistant to death. I got arressted, still insane, so I started hurting my self, screaming I hated myself I didnt want to be here. Sec then just pushed the blame off, didn't care, they didn't care (in character) so as my character was slowly delving into madness I swore revenge, AND TOLD THEM. when I got back to cargo, the other cargo tech had a "Suspicious card" and let me order stuff. I didn't want to use the flamethrower till I ran out of ammo and panicked and couldn't reload and I was about to go down. I didn't make it for "shits and gigs" - I was RP'ing as my character who was going insane and swore vengance on sec and the assistant 




22:27:42 

PM from Administrator to You

: Long story, will type a reply now  




22:27:16 

PM from You to Administrator

: Right, explain to me why you were shooting and using a flamethrower  




22:27:16 

PM from Administrator to You

: Right, explain to me why you were shooting and using a flamethrower
2 Likes
2

Just adding on, reading rule 1 I believe I did follow my character’s natural growth into what happened. I didn’t just “choose” to be insane, I followed my moodlet and just took it with that.

Rule 2 powergaming: I wasn’t aiming to “win”(?) as I don’t even know how I would. As I said, the weapons I got I wasn’t aiming to get. I was expecting to get something like a kinetic from tech storage and then get mowed down and perma brigged or straight jacket’d.

Rule 8 Grief: I can see this one and somewhat agree, but also disagree. I wasn’t fully aware of the flamethrower’s power hence why I do agree, but also, I didn’t actively seek it out or know it caused the damage it did. I got it from the traitor and ran with it not knowing what it do.

3

Ok, traitor in question here!

I found Ashley Singh cuffed back in cargo somewhat(my compliments for that escape with no tools, Singh!).

She said she needed guns. I, being the traitor cargo techie who already killed Mason Miami, the assistant with which she scuffled earlier, happily obliged.

Initially I gave her my .357 with no ammo, but seeing her unpleased by it I opened the old Phobos supply line and let her have all the good stuff. Judging from the exterior, I do think she never used a flaming weapon before.

I pointed her the grenades too and only after I pointed her the flaming weaponry she took some.

I gave her my bag because she didn’t have hers and wished her well.

I would frankly say that your RP was on point during all the round Singh, but effectively I… was pretty sure you were antag too?

See your reasoning is spot-on and to my knowledge and for my judgement, well roleplayed too. But the rules do block going THAT far if you’re not an antag against security or another crewmember, even if you’re roleplaying the situation.

Now sure, intent, roleplay and context will always be king, but aside not knowing the extent of the harm flaming weapons can cause… you went a little bit overboard. You were in your full rights to avoid denouncing any criminal activity to security, helping a traitor hide some gear too maybe, but not becoming an active murderous antagonist, without being one.

I suggest you give particular attention to the escalation policy of the rules when you re-read them!

1 Like
4

Yeah no problem, gonna take the day to read through. I was having fun with the RP and the others did ask in LOOC at points if it was RP or not so it seemed fun and a lot of them were going along with my character being a bit loopy from it all so it played quite naturally to which I felt like it went well.

I do see that going as far as I did can be very shitty, which is why I’m happy to wait the ban out and learn from it. Just kinda wanted an opinion from the bwoink I just felt like they saw what just happened and banned me. I was mid-reply at a point when it came through.

Edit: And yeah, I had not fully seen a flamethrower in action bar once, but I was killed by it near round-end so wasn’t fully aware of the actual damage it caused.

5

Well to even better show the limit in our rules, let me use 2 examples happened in this very round!

Both with the same protagonist, Mason Miami!

Your reaction with Mason Miami was IC. He was terrible, you were angered in response(both of you rping, of course!) and then one spark caused violence and it all played out IC. At this point you haven’t caused a sort of open revolt and such, you haven’t opened fire on anyone and you both have kept the conflict within acceptable parameters.

Same protagonist, Mason Miami, and me.

He came to the lobby, started talking a bit, threatened me less subtly after I threatened him more subtly. I told him that he touched a cargonian, and if you touch one of us you touched all of us!

He then came back and stole our lathe board. Now, I was an antag. But let’s see first what could I have done without being one :

1 Calling for sec

2 Denouncing him to everyone on comms(after all if you steal the cargo lathe you impoverished the entirety of the station)

3 Chased after him VERY BRIEFLY trying to shove him and get the board back. Maybe even throwing a punch or two in your case, because he was already pretty rude ealier(always in-character, of course!)

4 Bitch about him with all my coworkers for all the rest of the shift! Without going too far or being too obnoxious, of course!

And that’s what me, not being antag, limits me to.

But I was antag. So I went and I followed in maintenance, found him, pulled my .357 and downed him. Downed, not killed him. Then I dropped him in front of brig. Being the antag I can skip almost any step and immediately resort to lethal violence if I wish so and the context justifies it.

I already warned him that he was banished from cargo. I warned him he was no more welcome anywhere near us and threatened him subtly exactly about this kind of event happening.

But, not satisfied, he returned.

He tried to steal the board again and so I emptied 4 .357 into him, killing him. Then I surrendered to an officer, was saved by another traitor that killed that officer, recovered my gun and asked the lizzie doc that came to save both the officer and Miami to let Miami rot a bit in my office.

To try to roleplay some conflict of my character after the rage of having warned him and seeing that punk ignoring me and all the holy rules of cargo! But in the end he doesn’t stay even 2 minutes before another officer come-by and I happily surrender Miami’s body to him. After all it was never my intention to prevent his revival!

But once again, I’m the antag. In this case, you weren’t!

I want to conclude saying that it’s apparent from the way you write and think, that you came from a very genuine perspective from an organical roleplay. And if there wasn’t so much maliciousness around I’m sure we won’t be forced to limit situations as this one you found yourself in.

But hey, it was fun rping with you Singh! I look forward to see you from the day after tomorrow!

2 Likes
6

You too! I had fun also! Glad to see I wasn’t the only one who got antagonized by him haha.

I’ve played alongside Mason a few times and he hasn’t been antagonistic like that before so I easily presumed it was RP.

You’re right in saying that it did genuinely come from organic roleplay, which to me felt like it (for lack of a better word) justified my in-character behaviour. I never intended to be an on purpose griefer, and I could easily see this ban being a perma so I am thankful to the admin for the day ban and I will keep those actions in check (maybe I will just suicide in character with my insanity :wink: joking!!)

In all seriousness, I appreciate your input. I mostly just wanted another view to get an opinion on it so I can understand the RP better as I go :slight_smile:

4 Likes
7

Hello, I was the Head of Security during that round and I will confirm that the assistant was indeed very annoying to a point where it felt it was intentionally light griefing. From my perspective I saw that he was mass producing flashlights and after cargo techies told him to stop he proceeded anyways. As an officer I gave the assistant 2 verbal warnings to not do so or I will arrest him for wasting stations resources. Yet he kept continuing his actions.

I do have to admit that I’m sorry for being late on arresting the assistant, which made you angry IRL and In-character, but after you bashed him to death I though that was a reasonable sentence for him as is. It is already a timeout/Jail time being dead. So I just updated the logs about his activity and informed other security officers about him.

One thing that I will try to share from my personal-experience is to not base your character on moodlets too much, since they seem to change very quickly from small things (Such as being hungry will indicate that you want to die or you are going insane). From my experience I try to paint my character on how it would react in that situation based on me and within the limitations of the rules.

Regarding the incident with cargo revolution, Not sure if the admins told you, but you should not be causing mass riots or big murders if you do not have traitorous objectives. With the case of the assistant it was justified IC to beat him to death since he was very annoying. The problem was that as an Officer I had to react to you breaking the law which ended up making you go insane. But if you arm up and go full mayhem, without being a traitor that is counted as self-antag which is against the rules. As a non antagonist you came to work to this station, not to cause a revolution.

Finally, I am not an admin and this is my interpretation of the rules, so you should not take this as the final say

I enjoyed your RP and I think with a little improvement people will enjoy playing with you and admins will annoy you less with bwoiks. Hope this ends well for you!

8

Hey thanks!

I didn’t get annoyed irl tbh, I was just tryna go along with my characters moodlet more than anything. I will admit I’m quite new to RP and because a lot of that came along quite naturally whilst playing (like I said before, for lack of a better word) it felt like “justified” to continue?

I can see how my actions, especially with the flamethrower, were boink worthy. I am very thankful that the admin did only give me a day ban.

I do want to refine my RP more, so hopefully that can happen!

1 Like
10

Right. Banning admin here, lot of opinions were posted, so I’ll be brief.
The reason this is a ban is the gravity of the actions.
You caused a LOT of damages as non-antag, so much in fact that even with the fact you were doing it in good faith, it had to result in punishment.
It’s good you went to seek feedback on it tho’. Reflecting and taking a step back is important after admins had to take actions.
And as peoples said, moodlets doesn’t excuse going this far, you need to be an antag.
That’s needed to foster an environment where RP can flourish.
As the ban already expired, I’m gonna mark this as rejected, and close this.

2 Likes