Carolj player report. Meta-grudge Edition?

Player Input Player Reports
1

CKEY: BuckettLord

Your Discord: Buckettlord

Offender’s CKEY: Carolj

Offender’s In-Game Name: Xander Morgan

Date (YYYY-MM-DD): 2024/11/1

Round Number: 50515

Rules Broken: R14 Metagaming R14-3 Meta-grudging

Incident Description: This shift started off like any other on low pop, I do my Normal Engineering borg things come up with a gimmick calling lizards leather handbag material and Got upgrades through an engineer because No robotics.

Anyway, Xanders, A miner, started to point Out I’m Unlocked and kept trying to get security to check my panel ask me to state even after I stated my laws, Just being a general annoyance. this was Before I got relawed.

By the time i did get relawed, They Have Attempted to Open me up and Steal my battery, Had an EMP nade(claimed it was for the IPC criminal that they haven’t interacted with).

Additional Information: I’ve Had past issues with this player with them Meta-grudging me into the next round. Here is a Report about their Past issues with me

2

I had some time to step back and think about this, I don’t know if I this is still even report worthy since it’s lacking details and such so I’ll try to add some more now.

I witnessed INS get arrested and followed them to the brig, Inside the brig I Told the officer to turn them into a TV since IPCs have a TV for a head(part of my Gimmick during the round). I hung around and talked to INS alone asking if They are sure they don’t want to be a TV. Anyway, Xanders witnessed it.

Xanders started asking to talk to an officer on common Radio and shortly after they asked for me, I responded and found them, They started going on about how I’m unlocked and Need to “be checked” I eventually stated my lawset(I can’t remember if an Emag was found During this encounter or another one in the hall)

Let me remind you at this time, They are a MINER. I did Looc and ask them and it was because I was alone with INS?

Anyway, INS, did eventually Re-law me. I assume because I was calling them a TV. Anyway Due to Xander, I couldn’t really assist INS because security was already had eyes on me and I didn’t want to Get my laws fixed.

4

My side of the story is:
After seeing INS attack someone with esword and power fist (and admittedly helping out a little by ramming into them with jump boots and making them to drop their weapon), I was following behind and watching them get processed. Caretaker was there as a borg, suggesting that INS get turned into a TV, which is, y’know, fine, nothing suspicious there.

Anyway, after that, I saw Caretaker and INS talking to each other with the Eye of God I had obtained by that point. I could see both of them talking, but I couldn’t hear anything they were saying. A little bit past that, I ask to hear Caretaker’s laws, because I was a LITTLE suspicious, but ultimately nothing really major.

Then someone runs by with an emag, uses it directly on a door, says that they picked it up from INS’ bag, and now there’s the very real possibility that they’ve been emagged. Add to that the way they’ve been calling lizardfolk the equivalent of racial slurs, and the fact that most of the sec team specifically is lizardfolk, and I go “hm.”

Fast forward a bit after a mining run or two, I come back to see INS dragging the HoS’ possessions down the hall and leaving the HoS’ bloodied corpse out right in front of security. I take HoS to medical, patch them up as best I can, revive them, and set to making an EMP grenade, as I have been told that INS has killed five people at that point. Not just that, but Caretaker, at medical says that they’ll have to come up with a new slur for HUMANS, too, which is a fun little indicator that maybe Asimov isn’t quite sticking.

That was more or less the extent of my interactions with them. I don’t think I at any point attacked either of them (excepting the jump boots to disarm INS after seeing them attack someone in the halls).

As for the metagrudge accusation, my response is “lmao, that DOES look really bad, huh” but I can tell you sincerely that I had completely forgotten that buckettlord was the person I had a problem with that round.

I really don’t think it should matter if someone is security or not when it comes to the issue of noting suspicious behavior, especially if they do not then ACT on those suspicions. “they are a MINER.” they are also a crew member with eyes and ears and a brain.

5

Thank you for explaining your side, now I do wish to say a bit here

I do not remember much from that day but if i’m correct, I stated my laws Right then and there when it was found, I am unsure if you was beside me but Security for sure saw my laws.

If i remember correctly, Two? officers was still alive at that point, Making EMP grenades while security is active is a bit power game like.

Also, I was making up Names and uses for all races onboard Some was a bit offending but nothing was in mean spirt, I Never got around to make one for humans or skeletons.
IPCs was TVs
Lizards could become leather products, I had to change to Leather coats after you Ordered me Stop calling them leather bags(Thankfully INS relawed me and i went back to leather bags)
Vampires, I called them IV stands.

I like making IC conflict, That’s what I was intending to do and I did it well I think.

Correct, Neither did we attack you, You armed up with EMPs and Did your best to get me checked more then once and even tried to open me up once.

It felt like during this round you was Just trying to get security to Go after me. You saw me Privately talk to a prisoner and you did everything you could without Attacking me outright to get me checked.
I would understand if you just reported “Hey officer, I saw the borg talk privately with INS in the prison” But no, you kept on and on trying to get me checked Like you wanted to cause me issues.

6

I don’t have a LOT to say in response to this, but I want to clear up a few key things.

There being two officers alive ignores the fact that there were three dead, including the Head of Security. If there were two officers total, and they were both alive, yes, absolutely. That wasn’t the case, though, and INS had proven themselves capable of being lethally effective.

The thing is that I did make that report. The reason I kept bringing it up is because I never got a response from anyone as to the results! Not just that, but when INS broke out, my assumption was that if the EMAG hadn’t been destroyed (which I had no idea and still HAVE no idea if it WAS destroyed) then he could’ve had ANOTHER chance to subvert a borg.

And, just to kind of show that my suspicions weren’t unfounded, yeah, it turns out that WAS the case. The main reason I kept bringing it up was because I both didn’t get a response the first time, and there kept being new opportunities for it to happen again.

To be clear, I am not 100% sure just how lethal EMPs are for robots or borgs, but I was under the impression it was more of a Prolonged Stun than it would be immediately lethal. If I wanted to be LETHAL, I would’ve just made potassium + water grenades, which I didn’t. I tried to keep my options for subdual strictly non-lethal (bolas + what I thought were basically robot-specific stun grenades), and I didn’t end up using any of them, because I was never attacked directly, I never ended up using them, I don’t think.

…And, y’know, one final note, I think it’s important to note that some types of IC conflict are more likely than others to attract negative IC attention, and IC racism (which, you know, isn’t something I have a problem with OOC, and as far as pejoratives go, “handbags” is at least creative) was definitely ONE of the reasons that I was suspicious. It dovetails with the Asimov lawset, sure, but there are ways to incorporate that into the character motivations in ways that both don’t attract suspicion and also still cause IC conflict.

7

I doubt this however if you really do not know how lethal EMPs are to IPCs and borgs I’ll explain.

When an IPC gets EMPed They will suffer major burn damage along with a long stun and usually die. That’s not the worst part, They also get brain damage that requires chemistry to fix along with organ damage that They can Shrug off, Like having to Charge 20x more often.

For borgs? It’s an AOE stun+Wire damage combo that can stun them long enough for them to die by you.

Since we both stated our sides I suppose all that’s left is for admins to decide.

9

Alright - going to step in and say I don’t see anything indicative of metagrudge in particular, but I do want to say @CarolJ that we have been seeing a pattern of pushing the boundaries of what’s acceptable when it comes to Valid-hunting/Powergaming.

You’ve got to cool your heels when it comes to antagonists or perceived antagonists and understand that it shouldn’t be a priority for you to deal with or remove antagonists as soon as something seems a little amiss - SS13 isn’t Among Us and shouldn’t be approached with a similar mindset on an RP server, even if you were playing as security this holds true.

An unlocked cover should not be raising major alarm bells, and you also shouldn’t really understand the intricacies of an emag outside of a role with direct experience dealing with their effects. As a miner you are exposed to harsh conditions and are certainly going to be one of the first called upon when the station is facing a delta-level threat like blob or nuclear strike teams, but you really have to let security do their own thing as well. They’re not always going to be perfect at their job either, and sometimes they will be intentionally imperfect to give antags a chance to do their thing.

You’ve had several instances of being very trigger happy up until this point. You have no business making EMP grenades as a miner in the circumstances shown here - even without having known how powerful they were, crafting chemical grenades is completely out of scope for your job under the circumstances. A cyborg’s cover being unlocked shouldn’t be a red-flag for you as a miner either, and you shouldn’t know IC about emagging borgs unless you’re part of security, robotics or are an antagonist yourself.

Report rejected for metagrudge, but accepted with regards to continuing to push the boundaries of powergaming and somewhat valid-thirsty behavior. Remember your place as a miner/explorer is not to go out of your way to fight, accuse or prove someone is an antagonist - it’s good to interact with the station and the people on it, but not in a trigger happy way. Learn to separate OOC knowledge from IC knowledge. Even if you OOC recognize someone is an antagonist, ask yourself if it makes IC sense to recognize it too.

Also, I’d like to recommend you try security roles out - you’re good at spotting the signs security should keep an eye out for, and I believe you’d be a good officer as long as you maintain a healthy mentality that the antagonists are players trying to have a good time too.

Edit: One word missing at the top.