I completely agree and support the ban.
This is an issue with sage - everyone is so blood thirsty for no reason.
i mean they did just that to begin with: mentioning they heard flashing nearby, then going “i think there are revs since i heard flashing nearby”. if the only reason for banning someone for three days is because they said a sentence wrong even though a scientist could do the same thing (see “revs sci”), then that’s… kinda flimsy. especially considering the logs so far don’t seem to suggest they rushed security officers to fuck people up or went on a personal rambo quest, either. it’s hard to call someone bloodthirsty if they’re not actually going out and bashing people’s brains in or commanding others to do the same.
It was a singular incident in 500 hours of playing, doing it once does not make me somebody who “constantly” does something like this, nor does it mean I do it a lot. Don’t try to exaggerate it, just say that I did it once or say nothing at all. I’m fine with somebody calling a prior incident, but don’t try to upscale it to “HE DOES IT CONSTANTLY”, when that is outright a lie.
This is literally a one-off thing. It is literally once out of my 500 hours of playing. This is not metagaming and I’m not going to pretend it is, I’m merely using genuine common sense IC. Whilst my prior note was meta, at least in the eyes of the rules, this is literally seeing an antagonist antagonise in a room next to you and then being banned for calling them out on it. It’s the same vein as a cultist using cultist-speak next to you, or a changeling using an armblade in front of you, or a traitor spawning something in their hand in front of you. It’s a tell-tale sign that somebody is up to no good, there’s IC reasoning to know what they did and who they are, and there’s nothing in the rules stating what people know IC or not. This has never been an issue (identifying revs via flashing), many people, likely including yourselves, call out obvious and clear antagonists when spotted, so I cannot fathom how this is metagaming when it is, again, literally, just common sense. There is no guess. There is no estimation. There is a fact which I had multiple pieces of evidence to back up, and it was proven a fact a mere 15 seconds after being stated. I could prove it a fact before it was confirmed, and I can still prove it a fact now. It was not a guess. It was not metagaming. There was no “guessing the gamemode”. There was a person, using IC information, and using IC common sense, to deduce an IC threat that you are informed of in the IC Space Law, and even the guides of Security and Command. Even if the guides to the roles are not IC, Space Law and SOP certaintly are. Command are aware of Syndicate Brainwashing Parties (headrevs), and there is absolutely nothing in the rules that says I do not know they brainwash using flashes.
I’ve gone off track. My point is. Don’t try to make it out to be some constant type of behaviour. A singular incident occurred out of 500 hours of playing. If I was to take isolated incidents from generally consistent players, such as Xeapor, I could try make him out to be an LRP head of staff, for his ban from Sage during round ID 28262. Of course, I can’t and won’t, as it was a singular incident out of a long time playing. He has done nothing to prove himself a “regular” breaker of the rule, and, in correlation, neither have I. Both were isolated incidents out of long playtimes. I could call many people many things off of isolated incidents, but I don’t, because that’s unfair on them and a bad representation of who they really are. Xeapor is a great player, not an LRP shitter. I am not a metagamer off of a single incident, and I don’t acknowledge this current situation as an issue as it is me using common sense both OOC in terms of the rules, and IC in going “Hey this seems exactly like the syndicate brainwashing squad I was literally informed about in space law!”.
If you want to make a point, make it truthful and make it able to be backed up by evidence. One is a singular numeral. It is not multiple. There are no multiple instances creating the number one. There is one. One incident is not many, it is not a lot, it is not a repeated record, it’s one.
Hell the note was even for being LRP about it, the admin (Isy) said it would be more fine if I spoke better and presented evidence, which I did here.
TL;DR: Stop inflating a single incident to make me look like more of a shitter. It’s not fair on me, nor is it fair on anybody trying to make an unbiased judgement.
A) I was not “screaming all over”, that’s a wild exaggeration. I calmly stated that we have revolutionaries.
B) Flashes are not that common. They’re restricted to Silicons, Security and Command. Random flashing not committed by any of these departments is a tell-tale sign of Revolutionaries, especially when the shift has only just begun. As Velvet said, what the wiki says clearly does not match with the ruling.
Futhermore, I had IC evidence that it could not have been Sec, Command, Silicons or robo.
-
Sec was still gearing up, as were Command.
-
We had no silicons, and random flashing is against their laws.
-
We had no Roboticists and even if we did the shift had just started.
“But Hangy, how do you know it wasn’t a prank or a non-rev?”
Because nobody alive is robust enough to break into robo or sec in the first 30 seconds of the shift, even with an emag or tools.
I did not. Over common communications, I said, “There was a flash outside of the bridge, there are ( or we have, my memory sucks ass) revolutionaries.”. I did not use the comms console, and I did not merely say “revs”, I gave my evidence and elaborated to the crew. The comms console incident was a completely separate round and problem.
…the way I did? There would’ve been absolutely no difference whether I had been vague as to “Somebody just got flashed outside of my office” or as specific as I said. Both occasions sec would’ve gotten up in arms and gone full anti-rev, because that’s how revolutionaries go. I followed wiki protocol, and again, it’s not LRP or a bad approach just to be direct to the point. Being indirect is not better roleplay, it’s bad acting. Furthermore, I did say “there might be revs” ALONE IN MY OFFICE (if I remember correctly). I made the formal comms PSA with a direct saying that there ARE revs, because there was more than enough evidence to prove so. I had all the evidence I needed to not assume, but to KNOW there were revolutionaries, and there were. Roleplaying out genuine incompetence is against the rules, and not something I’m willing to do; there was a threat that would endanger the station, so instead of being deliberately vague.
Furthermore,
is a genuine lie. If somebody pulled ticket logs, they’d be able to see you telling me that “You are using information that your character does not know.”, which is on the lines of metagaming. I might be wrong, but the majority of the ticket was about “meta”, which contradicts with what you’re saying here.
Lastly, playing-to-win? It’s revs. It’s as bad as halo cult or nuclear operatives. This is one of three gamemodes that outright turns SS13 into a TDM. What do you think the revolutionaries are going to do? Roleplay? No, they’re going to slit my throat and cremate my body. That’s not meta either, if what Winter Darkraven says is true. I know the threat. I don’t see a point in being LRP and going "heeyyyy guys somebody got flashed that’s kinda sus 
" instead of going “Hey crew, I have evidence to support the fact we have a massive threat on-board.” like a competent leader would.
It is not bad RP to look at evidence and make a point based off of it, especially when you have no room to be wrong. I was right in this point and I knew I would be because there was evidence. It is not LRP to call out a blatant antagonist when they’ve just forgone stealth. And again, I did not say “might” on comms, I said there WERE. Because they weren’t a “maybe we have this”, they were a “They actively exist and are out for my blood.” If genuine competency is a bannable offence, then I suppose good detectives need to go as well, since they can figure out most antagonist’s identity through good work.
Calling out a confirmed antagonist is not LRP. If it is, half of MRP is in violation of the rule. I understand if it’s just guessing, but this was a genuine point with evidence to back it up from multiple sources, including myself and Science’s crewmembers. Again, I understand that guessing is LRP, but knowing is not, and should never be.
Revs is a bloodthristy gamemode that will get all of security and all heads of staff killed. The issue isn’t in the players here, the gamemode is inherently bloodthristy, like Nuclear Operatives and Blood Cult (in the halo phase). The entire gamemode is literally a team deathmatch. I don’t know what else you would expect here BUT bloodshed. There’s ittle to no room for RP without completely changing how the gamemode works; and before you bring up Lavaland exile, I doubt that level of cooperation will ever happen, especially since it’s much easier to just gut them, and likely more fun for the players anyway.
This isn’t a HRP server. There will be mass bloodshed in certain gamemodes. Revs is one of them. Banning me isn’t going to make it any less bloody and murder-y.
Also this. I had no intention of going full rambo. It was a PSA to Security and Command, as well as crewmembers who don’t want to be brainwashed. My original plan was just to get people mindshielded and hole up in the brig if worst came to worst. I had no intention of going on a full-on genocide. The round ended because the Head Rev essentially suicided, nobody knows how he/she/they died, including myself. Literally all I wanted to do was give out mindshields like a competent captain; what the HOS decided to do is his authority and job. I gave absolutely no orders to go around killing people or arresting people, and if they did, I was unable to tell them “hey let’s just focus on mindshielding” because of the bwoink. Any actions that sec did could’ve been stopped if I hadn’t been bwoinked, since I would’ve been able to direct them properly.
Yes I will continue to make massive posts.
Thank you to Winter Darkraven for citing the wiki (which I did in the ticket >:( smh) and bringing up the relavent entries, it is greatly appreciated.
I apologise if my language in this is a bit harsh, I’m not feeling too well at the moment and it’s putting me on edge.
Hence why you’re only banned for three days
Not reading the rest of your giant walls of text.
Noone on the station, including security and captain/heads, exsists just to hunt antags. Not saying you think that, im just sayin.
And YES, HALF OF SAGE IS IN VIOLATION OF GOOD ROLEPLAY RULES.
Making the instant jump from “i heard someome get flashed outside my office” to
“Yo there might be a revolution” is shitty.
There are a fuckton of other way a flash might have been obtained and used, heck for all you’d know it coulda been epic clown prank of running to your office and flashing self.
Noone’s saying you cant draw attention to people getting flashed, but making the instant jump to preping for something just because of one incident at round start. And if you cant see how that is non conducive to nice roleplay, i dont know what to say to you to make you get it, if im to be completely honest.
From what i’ve gatherd, other people were also calling out “revs in sci”
which, yes, should also have recieved a little slap for lacking roleplay., If thats their actual words anyways.
Take note - theres a diffrence between one isolated flashing, and a guy going around flashing evryone without shades, forming mobs and rioting. If they’re raising obvious trouble, of course at some stage you’d start to consider that it may be an organized insurection and not just a random dude being a fuck.
However, other slipping by unpunished does not make others doing the same any more acceptable.
Most importantly, this ban is only 3 days long, i think its entirely appropriate.
“Good roleplay rules”
I’m sorry but how the actual fuck is banning competency a “good roleplay rule”? Furthermore, there is no roleplay in Revolution. There is literally none. It’s an arms race between the crew and heads. You cannot tell me with a straight face that giving revs a chance will result in good roleplay, because it won’t. It’ll result the same as it always does, the station being heavily damaged and either half of the crew being dead, or all of sec/command being dead, whatever comes first.
And again, as I said in my post (which ignoring isn’t really a good idea if you want to be fair lol), there was absolutely, 100%, no way that anybody else could’ve used the flash outside of converting for the revolution. Security? In the brig. Command? In their offices. Borgs? Non-existence. Roboticists? Also non-existent. Security Offices? Not broken into. The armoury? Unbreached. My office? Unbreached. The Bridge? Untided. There was absolutely 0 way that anybody could have flashed without being a rev. It’s basic logical conclusion.
If you want to go the “that’s shitty” route, then you’ll want to rework basically every antagonist that involves murder/conversion.
And at that stage the mobs are already attempting to kill you and breaking into the brig. Don’t tell me I’m playing to win here, I’m trying to survive. Revolution is a gamemode where people are literally playing to win, and they win by murdering me. The whole point of revs is to identify them early or get ganked. It says that on the wiki. It literally says. On the wiki. To announce revs if somebody gets flashed (as kindly sourced by Winter). Outside of the Guide to Shitcurity and certain quotes, information on the wiki is to be taken as rulings (iirc).
People do this on a per-round basis whenever there’s a conversion antagonist. It’s shitty if, out of dozens or even hundreds of players, I’m the only one being punished. Furthermore, most of this happens with administrators on. Playing the game as intended is not against the rules, playing the gamemode as intended is not against the rules.
Which would be self-antag for the most part.
Yes, but Security’s job is to keep the station safe. The station can’t be safe if everybody’s being brainwashed into murdering the entirety of command and sec. That’s not safe.
A lot of these points were addressed in my “walls of text”, which I feel are pretty relevant to the appeal.
Basically: Why are you asking me to “RP” with revs when they aren’t going to RP back and will, instead, kill me as soon as possible? Furthermore, how is being smart now LRP?
As someone who’s read over this and given them there previous note. I think Hangy is not getting the fact that he shouldn’t be jumping to conclusions immediately when evidence of antagonists presents itself.
If one person flashes another with neither being command thats suspicious. From there you could make an announcement such as:
“; Crew, it has come to my attention that there has already been a case of flashing. Please remember flashes are restricted items and having one unauthorized will get you a hefty brig sentence.”
“:s Due to this flashing we may have revolutionaries aboard, report additional instances of flashing and try to bring in those responsible.”
Or maybe even:
"; It has come to my attention there have been instances of unauthorized personell flashing people. As such it is possible we have revolutionaries on the station. All personell are avised to remain in their departments and report instances of flashing immediately.
However:
“; revolutionaries sicne somebody literally just got flashed"
Is both poor RP quality and borderline metagaming.
You shouldn’t be calling revolution FOR CERTAIN based on a single flashing. Especially so as captain who’s words have actual authority. If the captain calls revolution, the warden can open the armoury based on it.
If some random assistant sees someone get flashed and screams “AHHH, REVOLUTION!!!” its more acceptable because they have no actual authority and lower expectations for their reasonability. The warden shouldn’t open the armoury because an assistant said so.
In my previous incident I tried to explain this to you, but it seems it didnt work and you did pretty much the same thing again.
I think its resonable you were banned for this but in my opinion it should have been a week long ban from command instead of a serverwide ban, as this problem is more to do with command and you might be able to learn from plaing and watching what other captains/command do.
You can be suspicious of revs and change your behaviour based on that, you just shouldn’t be calling them for certain this early.
The problem is your example is one of the most egregious ones. Some others call revs or such a little early, but calling it from 1 flash is far too soon.
This is literally what I said but fancier. Fancy text does not make something HRP. Nobody in their sane mind is going to be that formal during, what amounts to, a terrorist attack. Nobody is going to say “Oh, woe is me!” when they got shot in the leg. That’s not what people do. People will be blunt, to the point, and probably shout fuck.
Furthermore, I see no issue with jumping to a logical conclusion that you know, absolutely, is correct? There is evidence of a threat. At an airport, if somebody packs a bomb into their suitcase, nobody is going to be that polite or formal about the literal bomb threat. They are going to call the police, evacuate the airport and be straight to the point. They’re not going to cover it up with niceities. This is meant to be a serious, corporate environment. Nobody sane in such an environment is going to spend extra time saying an extra long announcement for something that could be paraphrased in a much sorter time.
And why not? Can I not call out cult of a single convert? Or a criminal for a single murder? A nuclear operative for one Elite Hardsuit? A flash is the defining feature of the Revolutionaries, and even more so when there’s no possible way that anybody else could’ve done it. I used facts and logic to determine a major threat to the station, not meta information. As the wiki literally says, flashes are a sign of a revolution, and as Winter said, that’s a good sign to get the fuck out.
It is not borderline metagaming. The wiki is free use information. I also don’t see how it’s poor RP quality, aside from the spelling error, which really isn’t enough to excuse a ban. I am blunt and to the point. I’m going to say it again. Making something long and fancy does not make it more Roleplay-ish or realistic. It does not make the game more enjoyable in any way than a normal sentence. Nobody sane in the safety industry would make an announcement that long for what is equivalent to a terrorist attack.
I was being smart, and information from the Wiki are both free use and available to use IC. Even if they aren’t, I can identify most threats IC with something called the book of Space Law, which literally identifies Revolutionaries as Syndicate Brainwashing Agents.
That’s not my fault. They shouldn’t be willy-nilly flashing and converting in front of a head of staff. That’s them refusing to be somewhat discrete, similarly to how a blood cult may get found out for refusing to be stealthy early on, or a traitor just leaving fingerprints on multiple corpses. It won’t be the reporter’s fault for the antagonist’s incompetency.
oh god oh fuck crossedfall is typing
i mean i wore a red space suit and then people yelled nukies and AA was handed out to everyone so i went and got AA and did my objectives and when the round ended there were no nukies.
Similarly i once did alot of flashing to convince cap there were revs to get mindshielded so i could easily impersonate a security officer as a ling.
Things happen. oh crossed be typing.
Flashes spawn on some maps or it could’ve been robo or one of the heads. This is not enough proof to confirm.
Most shifts are safe and boring, from RP perspective you have no reason to believe it is revs after hearing (not even seeing) someone get flashed. Reminder that you can use it in hand without directly flashing anyone.
This also. Deception is a massive part of SS13, and people shouldn’t be punished for being decieved. If a changeling genuinely manages to fool Security into believing they are the original security officer, and then they kill the genuine one, Sec shouldn’t be punished. They were outplayed. That’s a skill issue. Nobody should be punished for not being as good at the game as a likely more experienced player, and vice-versa.
The Traitors and Changeling gamemode are based on deception. SS13 is a game about “oh no who did (xyz)”. People in similar games, such as Town of Salem and (forgive me) Among Us are not banned/suspended for killing the wrong person. The aim of the game is deception and deceit.
I literally told you that the heads were still in their offices and we had no roboticists. This was not a map with a flash.
I am still informed on threats, according to Space Law.
Good behavior: “:s I heard someone get flashed near my office, someone investigate”
Not cool: “; I heard one flash we have revs”
There is no difference, other than the “good behaviour” not informing Heads of Staff (arguably more important than Sec in this situation due to them being targets) and not informing the general crew that something is out to either gut them or take their sanity.
Both will end in Sec either killing or being killed by at least one person (the headrev) or more, depending on how far the Headrev got.
Two things.
Firstly,
Stop using giant text to emphasize a point
It makes it incredibly difficult to take your side seriously. It’s the bolded equivalent to typing in all caps.
Secondly, the core portion of your argument seems to be:
But I think you’re neglecting to understand that the antagonist had not actually been confirmed at this point. You had a reasonable assumption based on your allowed knowledge, but you didn’t have any confirmed evidence or actual proof of anything. Just that you heard a suspicious sound; which, on its own, isn’t really enough to justify sending the station into chaos in my humble opinion. You ended up being right, but that’s entirely irrelevant to what the banning admin and others are trying to bring up.
Just to reiterate my point here… I certainly think a case could be made for reasonable suspicion, but, I struggle to see justification for anything beyond that.
I’m writing out what I would say, provided you get the point across that there might be revs in proper english its fine.
“Someone’s flashing people, there may be a revolution”.
Any head of staff could have gotten into a fight with some other person which invovled a flash or many other reasons. Flashing isn’t exclusive to revolutionaries where runes and elite hardsuits are exclusive to their respective antagonists.
By now I think we have tried our absolute best for you to understand it. If you still dont, you should not play command roles until you do as you will probably just end up banned for longer.
Okay fair enough.
Unfortunately that’s not really that simple. More experienced players, specifically in Sec and Command, would take that as confirmation, especially if there was absolutely no way anybody other than the revolutionary could’ve done it, whilst staff don’t seem to agree. There was reasonable suspicion, and I acted on it.
I completely understand what the other staff members mean, with evidence, proof and being more discrete, but I believe I had all the evidence I needed to prove the existence of a threat. If I can consistently identify a threat through seemingly niche clues that can be completely justified IC. I’m going to make a somewhat related example. A Detective finds a body in maintenance. Upon identifying the corpse, they find out it is a botanist; Michael McDoesntExist. They take blood traces and scan the area for prints. They also heard a gunshot from the area earlier, but had brushed it off as an arcade game. They match a set of prints on an airlock and a blood trace to an assistant, and the captain confirms that they too heard a shot. The alert is elevated to blue and the Captain says there are Syndicate Agents on-board. Later, the assistant is arrested and searched. They have a .357 Revolver and an open uplink, meaning the Detective and Captain were right. Whilst they may not have had hard proof of the actual threat, they had more than enough related proof that could justify knowing the threat, or at least in my opinion. Is this metagaming/poor RP, or justified, in your opinion?
The Head of Staff were in the offices, as I’ve stated prior. There was no way it was one of them.
Oh no I understand your point, I just believe it’s not correct. SS13 is all about reasonable assumptions in the very essence of the game, and I made a reasonable announcement using substantial evidence to back it up, as well as numerous other pieces of evidence that proved it was not a head of staff, a borg, a roboticist etc. I understand your point about assuming too much, but I don’t believe that’s true. Seeing a syndicate balloon and going “Traitor!”? Yes, completely reasonable to say that’s bad. Genuinely seeing a sign of a major antagonist with proof to back up that it was them and not anybody else is what I am appealing.
If wanting complete hard evidence of an antagonist is what is wanted by the staff team, then I can relent on attempting to defend myself here, but I do find it rather frustrating that being smart in terms of the game is now punishable. That is mainly why I’m protesting this ban rather than agreeing with what the staff say.
Did you ask every single head of staff if they flashed everyone, PDA’d every roboticist and ensured they didnt and also get proof somehow they weren’t lying, checked the HoP line to ensure nobody stole the flash, made sure no one snuck into robotics and stole one.
You didnt prove it wasnt yet you claimed it was. Saying you think there might be revs and acting like there might be revs is fine.
Acting like there are definately revs isnt.
It really is that simple, to be quite honest. There’s a reasonable proof standard with any action. Hearing a noise isn’t considered reasonable proof of anything, as you didn’t see what actually happened and you don’t actually know what took place. All that you know is that a flash was used, not how it was used or why.
This immediate jump to a conclusion, in combination with your prior incident, is why the ban was applied. I know you’ve made the argument prior that these were isolated incidents within your several hundred hours of play; but, please try to understand that it’s less about how often it happens overall and more about the gap between each incident.