Brother_Hangyul banned by GiggaGuy

Ban Appeals Game Ban Appeals
1

CKEY:
Brother_Hangyul
Admin’s CKEY:
GiggaGuy
Is this for both servers or just one? If so, which one:
Sage
Which server did the ban happen on?
Sage
Ban Type:
Server
Ban Length:
3 days
Ban Date (MM/DD/YYYY):
07/23/2021
Round ID:
31548, however, the actual incident took place on the round prior.
Ban Reason:
As a captain, said in common “we have revolutionaries” after someone got flashed outside his office 1 minute into the shift, has been noted recently for similar behaviour.

Appeal Reason:
Okay, firstly, on my prior note; whilst it may have been just, it was mainly on me “guessing” the gamemode, instead of using genuine logical conclusion to figure out what the “gamemode” was, which is why I believe it’s not as relevant as it’s being made out to be. Now for the actual appeal.

To put things into context, the shift has just started. I’m grabbing my clothes when somebody, right outside of my office, gets flashed; I hear it clearly. Security is lowpop and are still arming up, there’s no head of staff other than me/the HOP/the CMO (to my knowledge), all of which are still gearing up. So, again, somebody who logically cannot be command/sec is flashed right outside of my office. I say over comms there’s probably revolutionaries seeing as somebody literally got flashed right outside my office; somebody responds with “REVS SCI”, proving my point. At this point I’m bwoinked for metagaming. Here are the relevant rules for metagaming/RP.

  1. Revealing in-character information in out-of-character channels, such as OOC or Discord, is not allowed while rounds are ongoing (referred to as ICK OCK).
  2. Streaming is allowed, but you must have a minimum of 1-minute delay for broadcasting.
  • You are also responsible for any meta-comms taking place in your chat feed - obviously you can’t control your viewers, but acting on meta-knowledge from your feed will result in a ban.
  1. You cannot attack players over events that occurred in a previous life. This includes ghost respawns and new rounds. When you are cloned, you cannot remember the last 5 minutes leading up to your death.
  • Taking action against another player based on events your current character couldn’t know about, or that occurred in a different round, is called meta-grudging and is against the rules as well.

I did none of this.

  1. Most shifts (aka “rounds” out-of-character) are “normal” for your character. Rounds are typically non-canon, and only the current shift is abnormal/crazy/etc.
  • Basically, don’t act like it’s normal for cultists/nukies/wizard/etc to happen to the station, or for things to generally devolve into chaos.
  • Pretend your shifts normally go smoothly and without major incidents, and that the current round/shift is an anomaly.

I did not presume that my shifts go with incident, and was literally gearing up, when somebody got flashed out of my office. Specifically, Gigga said I was metagaming by using information that I know, but my character does not.

Here is the Space Law entry for Enemy of the Corporation.
Current enemies of Nanotrasen currently include: The Syndicate (through secret agents, boarding parties, and brainwashing specialists), The Wizard Federation, The Changeling Hivemind, and The Cult of Nar’Sie.
Here is the “Re-Education” clause in space law, an IC guideline that all sec and command know.
Getting de-converted from revolutionary or cultist.

This implies that all security know of threats and, furthermore, know that Revolutionaries are: A: a thing and B: Convert people. “But how would you know they convert via flash?” Where does it say that I don’t? Why is it that a science member can say that “Revs sci” but I cannot say that “Somebody got flashed, there’s revolutionaries”. My last note was justified, yes, but nowhere did it tell me that I don’t know something IC, merely that I shouldn’t guess the gamemode with lack of evidence. There was clear evidence, I was not guessing, there’s nothing telling me I do not know that flashes are used by revs to convert and there is also proof, IC, that we know of revolutonaries.

Additional Information:
If you are wondering why I’m posting from a different acc/IP, I asked crossed to delete my forums account a long while back and it’s a bit of a mess to undo, so eh.

also I’m back I guess

2

And before anybody says “oh it could be a prank to bait people into thinking there are revs”, we had no roboticists to my knowledge, nobody has easy access to a flash other than sec/command, that’d be more “meta and LRP” than this as a whole and it’d also maybe fall under powergaming, depending on how they got the flash.

3

it could be a prank to bait people into thinking there are revs

Wirecutters on HOP line to get dat flash.
Delta has a flash outside sci.
Sometimes there is a RoboFab in maint with materials to print among other things Flashes.

Powergaming is taking stuff for no good reason other than “winning”
A prank is a very good reason.
.
.
.
But yes this ban is very cringe and unbased. Sec and Command 100% know what EOC do and are. And they must be COMPETENT as that is what rules say so you cannot RP as an incompetent.

4

“it could be a prank to bait people into thinking there are revs”

This would imply that they know more about revs than command/sec, which is silly.

1 Like
7

You trying to guess the gamemode via cap announcements yesterday maybe hasn’t helped your case. This isn’t a one off thing, you seem to do this a lot.

1 Like
8

Two times out of 500 hours is not " a lot", also that’s even assuming this is guessing the gamemode. It was not a guess, it was a logical conclusion which was also completely correct, since an antagonist did their antagonising in a room directly next to me. This is not of the same vein, and it is not " a lot" even if you count this.

9

For reference, 500 hours is roughly 20 IRL days. If, out of 2 of the 20 days, I drank tea instead of coffee, that doesn’t make me a person who prefers tea over coffee, it makes me somebody who has consumed tea instead of coffee a small amount of times.

10

I mean it is a logical conclusion for ANYONE in the command staff to make once they hear a flash.

“But he meta-gamering!!!”
“IT’S JUST A PRANK.”

Neither of those are remotely able to excuse the fact that someone was for lack of a better word, smooth brained enough to flash someone right outside of the bridge. I’ve caught Revs before because I heard flashing through walls, the fact he’s only punished is because he did an announcement rather than going on Command or Sec channel and saying.
“Might be Revs.”

11

That’s an issue on my part, aye, but I still don’t feel like it’s a big enough issue to justify a ban, especially since revs convert and not being mindshielded puts the crew at risk.

12

Whilst I’m here, I’d also like to mention that multiple other people shouted “Revs/Revolutionaries (location)”, and as far as I’m aware, none of them were punished or bwoinked. People saying that there is a specific threat when it is genuinely confirmed has never been against the rules. My last note was for guessing. This was not a guess. There was proof and evidence of the threat that was undeniable. Trying to make it out as anything else would’ve been incompetency, which is outlawed by Head of Staff conduct.

1 Like
13

additional context:
image

2 Likes
14

Is it meta knowledge to ‘hear’ a flash and call out revs?

As far as I know captain shouldnt know how they convert?

15

The round ended in 15-20 minutes, sec arrested nobody, the headrev basically suicided. Sec didn’t have time to do anything, or at least to my knowledge, the round ended fast because the headrev essentially killed themselves, and I’m not that sure how.

16

I don’t know why “hear” is in airquotes, and there is absolutely nothing in the rules stating the Captain/Sec doesn’t know how an antagonist converts. If there was a proper entry somewhere that told me what we did/didn’t know, I’m fairly certain this wouldn’t’ve happened.

Also revs are almost consistently called out every round it happens, so that’s generally untrue.

17

I second this. You used the cap’s announcement to say “It’s either cult, revolution or traitor” (fun fact, it wasn’t any of those gamemodes) on it after (iirc) a miner finding a cult sword from a lavaland ruin.

2 Likes
19

All players are allowed to know everything on the wiki, the revolution gamemode is on the wiki.

Players are not allowed to use information gained in any way other than from their living character’s point of view during an ongoing round, except for official information libraries such as the wiki.

You’re allowed to know everything on the revolution wiki page.
https://wiki.beestation13.com/view/Revolutionary

Adding more. ICly Space Law covers revolutionaries.

Enemy of the Corporation
To act as, or knowingly aid, an enemy of Nanotrasen.
Current enemies of Nanotrasen currently include: The Syndicate (through secret agents, boarding parties, and brainwashing specialists)—

Re-education
Getting de-converted from revolutionary or cultist.
Immediate release.

20

One flash doesn’t warrant captain screaming revs all over. Flashes are common tool.

1 Like
21

Referring to the wiki, again.

https://wiki.beestation13.com/view/Research_Director

A revolution is a bad time for both research and directing it - As such, you’re in for a wild and dangerous ride where you will live as a robust freedom warrior or die the endless hordes of greyshirt commies.

The sad reality is that you are extremely vulnerable, as you start in a department where dangerous things are easily put together, along with the fact that the high department population typically means there is a head revolutionary hidden somewhere inside.

At the FIRST sign of danger, you need to be RD outski and get to Brig. This means:

  • People flashing each other
  • People following you around and not doing their job
  • People milling around in firesuits with flamethrowers

Random flashing is a cause for concern, as stated in the wiki. I do not support banning players for following the wiki which is allowed.

22

I disagree.

If the captain hears a flash that early on, outside the bridge then they have EVERY RIGHT to believe it’s Revolutionaries. You can claim it’s pranks and security/heads overacting is bad but wanna know what’s called? I’m sure you know.
"THIS ISSUE WAS MARKED IC."

I’ve literally been a fake wizard before and gotten lynched by the crew because me yelling out the spell, using the stage magician gloves, wearing wizard robes and shoving people. I’ve seen fake cults because people draw runes in maint to fuck with people.
Regardless of that fact it still is an IC issue if Command and Sec take actions to combat that threat. However Brother Hangyul action completely within SOP,server rules and even wiki rules. He has every right to know what Revs how, how they’re converted, how they’re deconverted, and their tale-tell signs. He heard a flash right outside of bridge, announced it to the crew, and then someone declared Revs in science and then the round was over.

All of that is completely IC, not breaking any rules. However I do think using the announcement console to say.
“REVS” was bad.

1 Like
23

Heres the actual chat log, 1 minute after roundstart

Chat logs

Jul 23, 2021 @ 11:44:01.092

SAY: Brother_Hangyul/(Hangyul Kim) “okay I can hear flashing” (Captain’s Office (103, 167, 2))

Jul 23, 2021 @ 11:44:03.079

SAY: Brother_Hangyul/(Hangyul Kim) “we might have rev” (Captain’s Office (103, 167, 2))

Jul 23, 2021 @ 11:44:14.155

SAY: Brother_Hangyul/(Hangyul Kim) “revolutionaries sicne somebody literally just got flashed”

My banning descision does not go under metagaming, you have the right to know about revolutionaries and how they convert, but the fact that you heard a flash sound and call out “there might be revs” falls under poor rp in my perspective.

If you had gone “someone got flashed outside my office” or “[Person] just flashed somebody outside bridge” to security chanel then it would be different, since the same result would had happend, but with a different approach. My issue is not the fact that you called out revoltionaries so early into the round, but rather the way you did and your previous notes points towards the fact that your playstyle is “play to win” rather than a roleplay mentality.

1 Like