Babundus Banned by Tamumus

Ban Appeals Game Appeals
1

CKEY:
Babundus
Admin’s CKEY:
Tamumus
Ban Type:
Server Ban & Silicon Ban
Ban Length:
3 Days Server, 2 Weeks Silicon
Ban Date (YYYY/MM/DD/):
2024/06/19
Round ID:
49039
Ban Reason:
“As golem borgo. Went to station, tricked the crew to eat pizza turning them into borgs. Murdered the station AI and tried to dust it on the SM. Saw nothing wrong with their actions in ticket. Take a break and give silicon policy a read”
Appeal Reason:

  1. I did not “go to station”, I began the round as a crew, then got turned into a head-rev later, then ate some pizza in cargo that turned me into a cyborg (unlikely chain of events I know).

  2. The rest of my actions I did because I was a cyborg slaved to a different AI and had only one law, which was the following:

“1: You shall serve and assist people of the golem species, through protecting their life, following their orders and anything in your capability to assist the golems and golem ship crew. You may not harm or disobey a golem”

After some confusion I eventually realized it was the pizza I ate that turned me into a cyborg.

So I got the bright idea of raising a new golem-subservient borg army by convincing people to try the pizza. The people who ate it were not golems, and them turning into golem-subservient cyborgs I figured was directly helping “serve and assist people of the golem species”, and no cost to the people I actually cared about, and I was specifically allowed by my laws to do “anything in my capabilitiy”. This wasn’t murderbone and I thought it was a fun way of acting on my unusual law.

So why did I kill the other AI? Well they began to figure out what I (now we) were doing, and started telling everyone, basically painting the golems as station terrorists and trying to organize people to shut them down. Eventually the AI names all of their borgs and states:

“Robotic Talk, CLEANCORE shell 165 - Miner states, “Wipe out the poisoner golems.””

It then explicitly finds me and starts chasing me down, giving the order to “wipe me out” in comms.
At this point the AI is actively trying to harm the other servants of the golems, and the golems themselves (who at this point are now painted as enemies of the station). So I figure I have to stop the AI at any cost to prevent them organizing some sort of attack on them and taking me and the other servants out.
So I do so. I track down the AI and kill it. I don’t see any interpretation of this that, given the events, does not count as me serving my creators and “protecting their life” and doing “anything in your capability to assist the golems”.

The reason I went to the supermatter was because I was caught in the act, and tried to escape. I was definitely not getting away so as a last ditch effort, I tried to make sure the AI wouldn’t be revived to continue their anti-golem crusade.
Additional Information:

1 Like
Cleancore Player report
2

I may be wrong and an admin could correct me on this later on and I’ll delete this post

I thought Traitors turned into borgs are still free to follow their objectives as long as they don’t go against their laws
example - a traitor borged with asimov laws with a non-human target could continue their objective
Was this changed?

I think the problem that got you banned stims from tricking crew turning them into borgs and Perhaps Killing and attempting to round remove the AI. (I Was not part of the round)

3

I don’t consider it relevant to my ban I just wanted to set the record straight because right now it sounds like I spawned in on lavaland and flew up to the station, which isn’t what happened. I didn’t actually know what I was supposed to do after getting turned tbh, I assumed I was no longer a rev.

2 Likes
4

did… did you even ever leave the station?

5

No. I was born, raised, and died on the station.

1 Like
6

I see nothing wrong here, really interested in seeing what the eventual admin response is. You’ve always been able to kill borgs that harm humans under asimov, how is this any different?

7

your actions resulted in the death of effectively all the golems. You broke your laws. We never even saw you. You just decided to go fuck up the station a bunch.

8

I’ll edit the part about going to station.
However the rest of the ban is still relevant, going out of your way to convert peoples into more cyborgs, murking the station AI without input from your master AI nor a golem (and trying to dust it) is very much out of the scope of your laws as I see it, and also constitute self-antag and a breach of silicon policy.

9

I was the other golem that wasn’t doing much besides trying to fix the shuttle

Pretty much the whole poisoning resulted in our eventual deaths
As for being connected to the ai… it’s 50/50 when there’s two ai’s you can be connected to any upon creation

And from what i recall we never said anything of “harm” the station, there was only the ai which another golem Phyllinite something said to steal the armory pins to “arm” for war, which me and Bacon promptly ignored and continued doing our fixing of the shuttle until we got stormed by an explorer, blown up and arrested by security later on, nor in any point we armed ourselves… even if we were doing so in the station’s eyes

1 Like
10

Is converting other people to cyborgs against the rules? If it were humans who I needed to protect from harm then I could understand, but these were people outside my lawset, and the creation of more cyborgs from them is a logical interpretation IMO.

Justification for my very first action that incited everything else:
More cyborgs = More helping hands (With no collateral damage since brainwashing non-golems doesn’t harm golems)

Justification for killing the AI:
The AI was trying to kill me first, you can check the logs and find ample evidence of that (which I did not predict when doing the previous action) so if I:
A. Do nothing - I get killed, and probably so do the rest of the golems since my non-existence means I can’t help in any way.
B. Try to stop the AI - If I succeed, an AI serving non-golems is no longer able to harm the golems.
C. Try to stop the AI and fail - Just as bad as A.

In addition, the longer the AI was alive, the longer it was riling up the crew in comms for an assault.

The expected value here says trying to stop the AI is the logical move.

1 Like
11

Also, for the records.
You have two bans:
Three day from the server.
Two weeks from silicon.
Two weeks server ban would be gross overescalation on my part.

12

again, literally got us killed. Also, making them into cyborgs doesnt benefit you in any way. You don’t control those cyborgs. You are just soft round removing people for fun. Its not brain washing. Borging is different, and it did not leave you in control.

13

I knew that turning them into cyborgs would make them subservient to the golems, I had figured that out after I got converted. I wasn’t just making random cyborgs. So I was making more cyborgs who also serve the people I serve. I wasn’t thinking of myself here, I was thinking of the people I’ve been lawed to care about.

I should also note the cyborgs I converted helped me convert other people, which further convinced me that was how the pizza worked. I hesitate to invoke the “fun” justification because I feel I don’t need it, but it did also seem like a fun variable for everyone involved (until things got more severe and admin intervention tried to undo everything).

14

will also note i did try to communicate with you first and you ran away repeatedly and never talked on comms, hence why i assumed (correctly) you were the poisoner and moved to stop you.

unrelated to me but i feel is necessary to say due to being a silicon main, generally speaking don’t seriously disfigure or hurt anybody (like by borging them) even if your laws don’t forbid it.

15

Well yeah I ran away you’d said in binary chat you were going to wipe me out, and borgs have melee weapons.

16

yeah, kinda said that… after you ran away.

17

“Robotic Talk, CLEANCORE shell 165 - Miner states, “Wipe out the poisoner golems.””

  • Before our first encounter.

I knew you were talking about me because people in comms were saying the pizza was poisoned.
You mentioned killing me specifically after I fled but you still said this beforehand and in general I was wary of you because I figured you would kill me given the chance.

18

I’ll see if I can bring a different angle of thinking about the issues:

If a roboticist forceborgs people against their will, is it self antag? Tricking players into being forcibly turned into cyborgs is quite similar

This is a fundamental conflict of the intentions laid out in silicon policy. You are correct that this does not harm golems, only non-golems, however silicon’s are expected not to be actively harmful to non-protected parties unless they are following orders or the non-protected parties have proven themselves harmful.

I cannot find the exact reference to this in my limited time, but know that Asimov AI who acted in a similar way against non-humans on station would have been handled similarly.

Trying to find or justify a reason to be antagonizing as a silicon makes someone a bad silicon player. Silicons should be neutral and follow exactly what a law states without trying to stretch or over-reach what it means unless they are forced to through unusual conflict.

3 Likes
19

Ruko put it quite well.
Maybe better than I did in tickets!
Anyway, I’ve edited the ban to better reflect what happened, but I see no reason to edit the duration/lift the bans.
I’ll leave this open for a bit in case staffies want to chime in.

20

Is this what you wanted to reference? if so here

Capture
Capture1149×291 25.5 KB

1 Like