I said this in a ping via discord and I’ll say it here too: This is a mistake born from when Rule 7 was the self-antag rule.
When the 18+ thing passed some rule numbering was shuffled and this was overlooked. Something for @Crossedfall, @llol111 and/or @FreshMeatLover to fix.
The edit history of the rules page is fully visible, even though editting isn’t available for protected pages.
The fault of ‘sec situation’ is mostly in experience.
I like to believe that…
Most decent sec players before joining a shift will check the manifest and will not play as secoff if they see unreliable sec/command.
This in turn leads to both extremes of sec presence depending on the leadership of the shift.
Either little to no sec, or a sec team loaded up with a enabling command staff with highly experienced sec staff.
Why roll to have a stressful shift roundstart when you can simply choose a minute after?
Your allies are determined and laid bare in the crew manifest a minute after shift start.
Make bee a more interesting place, enable antag for command staff will remove the ability to meta game the round before it even starts for you.
And then we have to deal with the numerous issues that causes.
This is a terrible idea, HoP/RD were absolutely overpowered to the point of being unfair as antags, it was a shitshow when it was enabled.
Do you really want people who (should) have full knowledge of a department and can easily convince other departments to give them access the ability to be antags? Like you would be getting antag CMO where they have the best virus, all the genetics powers, surgery upgrades and implants all at your disposal?
I mean, xenobiology is the same… and you don’t have to be a head to mess with it. But I agree yeah, crew should still have people they can fully trust.
Yes i believe the power imbalance would be fine. It would be no different from antags being promoted to head roles or the fact that ai, the head of silicons can be malf. Only this time you cant meta game it.
Enable the possibility of it and reduce the probably of it happening to like 1/10th. It would be neigh impossible for it to be metagamed and would exist as rarely as malf ai.
This would increase the probability of people playing heads and increase conflict and distrust which is what you want to drive rp
For those that say you are supposed to trust in people. That mainly being mindshielded personnel, captain and sec.
Isn’t det currently like ignored because people know they can be antag? Removing antag protection from heads will only make people not listen to them in certain situations out of fear of being round removed (for example: CMO asking you to follow him into maints to ‘retrieve’ a corpse, only to kill you 30 minutes in and then you have to wait for another 2 hours, because people found it amusing to prolong the snoozefest 2 times), and as I said before, HoP and RD were blatantly overpowered as antags, with former getting AA for free and latter subverting the AI every single fucking time, can’t see how that adds any fun to the game.
It’s almost like metagaming is a mindset issue, trying to adress it with just code is like trying to push a beachball under the water.
Oh, well that’s a bit embarrassing. I’m surprised nobody brought it up until now. It’s been corrected.
I thought I’d say this here but I actually love secuirty even when I bitch at them whenever I’m lawyer. If they do something wrong I think it’s important to correct them and when they do a great job I’m generally happy they did.
I actually stopped playing security a year ago because of that lack of roleplaying feel.
I have to agree with this. I seen entire rounds be ruined by antags with too much freedom.
Correct me if I’m wrong but there’s a goal that traitors get that allows them to pretty much muderbone people on the station if they want.
I don’t blame secuirty for not having high standards for roleplay but the few I have seen really make that department better.
The one thing I don’t know how I feel about is when admins get involved with minor or meduim level laws with non-antags since I feel secuirty just be the ones to handle that most of the time. Otherwise it breeds valid hunting.
Man, of all the things I don’t get as a player, its why folks hate on sec and call shitsec when the situation actually calls for brutal SEC response, I was playing HoP so it’s basically half my job to just listen to coms and I was acting captain for a bit too, so I had the captain’s bowman on.
I think it was 10 minutes after red-alert was called, we may have even gone back down into blue, everyone was complaining about getting batonged and zapped by secies durring red-alert, the phrase shit-sec was uttered over comon coms at least twice before I tuned out of Common to focus on Command and get the actual situation from my fellow command staff and the sec-channel.
I don’t remember the exact outcome of the red-alert call, but what I do remember was that things were quieter, as far as I was concerned, Sec had done their jobs perfectly.
Another time, about 5 rounds ago even, I was signed up round start as an officer.
I’ve got no department selected so I decided to roam maint, picking it clean of sweet sweet oldie-gasmasks contraband, co-incidentally this meant I wasn’t present at SEC for a mad Plasma-flooding instigated by a head-rev para-medic.
the round went downhill for SEC and the Command staff after that, I wound up arresting the para-medic, roaming maint for about 5 minutes looking for bandages escorted by a borg, who was following due to the insistent calls of “Human harm”, it did sort of help in the capture of the perp when it realized the situation and flashed the dude, but aside from that it blocked shots and prevented me from knocking the guy’s jaw off when I had him in cuffs while he was actively betraying me to his rev buddies.
I considered it a good round, but the aforementioned lack of officers happened again, given it was me and I think a detective and “late join” Hos, who were taken out by the Brig Plasma-flooding, it ended with Kalavi Lumen getting another notch to add to his personal death tally back home at mothfleet.
Also don’t forget that
roleplaying doesn’t work with antags.
Even players who are regulars in this community with +1000 hours simply refuse to roleplay as antag and sometimes even as non antag.
The only roleplay I see from antags is them brainwashing their felinid metabuddies who suddenly act clueless.
this is literally a roleplaying game
???
I’m happy for you that you are this clueless
are you really?
Immediately getting defensive or insulting someone in a conversation such as this doesn’t provide anything meaningful to the discussion.
It does, however, highlight part of the issue we are facing;
Players fail to be amiable and sociable, and roleplay gets brushed to the side in favour of persistent conflict. You’re more likely to attempt to create roleplay moments as an antag if you think the security players will roleplay along with you. It goes both ways. In-game this lack of sociability manifests as wordless harm-baton or security getting bombed/EMP’d out of existence. External to the game it manifests as salt-slinging and name calling.
It’s no surprise to me that some of the best role players are some of the most sociable people.
It’s unfortunate that Bee Station attracts so many players who are here to play a PvP game more akin to Among Us.
If you’re saying antags don’t RP then you’re in a totally different game lmao. I’ve had a lot of interactions with antags, even as a secoff. And a good amount of them weren’t kill on sight bs or metafriending.
I, personally, do not RP as antag with security unless its someone I’ve seen that I know RPs, out of fear of having my round ruined because I tried to make more fun out of my situation.
I play stealth traitor anyways so i dont see them ever
There is plenty of roleplay with antags. or roleplay potential. People just don’t roleplay because they fear the other side squashing their fun if they do so.
Simple. Force antagonists to use escalation to kill.
