Wisakejak Banned By ravellon

CKEY: Wisakejak

Admin’s CKEY: ravellon

Is this for both servers or just one? If so, which one: Well, both. But Sage is longer.

Which server did the ban happen on? Sage

Ban Type: Server

Ban Length: 1 Week Sage, 1 Day On Both

Ban Date (MM/DD/YYYY): 2020-07-19 18:03

Round ID: 18759

Ban Reason: Round 18758, MRP. Metagrudge and LRP behavior: ordered AI to prevent law uploads by Nancy Druid because it’s Nancy Druid. Also, furry degeneracy religion. Auth: Kerbin

Appeal Reason: I did tell the AI something like “Law 2, don’t let Nancy Druid write a ‘Nancy Can Decrew’ Law”, but I only said it once at the beginning of the round as a joke, and did not prevent Nancy from rewriting the laws, nor did I interfere and stop her from getting into the upload at any point during the round. I do not believe I am the reason AI prevented Nancy from getting into it’s upload.

“Degeneracy Furry Religion” was made as a joke, but no ERP, or ‘erotica’ took place under the excuse of my ‘religion’.

Additional Information: I was never bwoinked or noted on my behavior. Just slapped with a ban.

1 Like

Your order resulted in AI fighting to its death attempts by Nancy to do a law change.

The reason you did not get bwoinked is because by the time I figured out who caused the conflict with the AI you have disconnected and then it took me some time to get auth. Which seemingly resulted with you reconnecting and starting another round.

I am sorry for not trying to message you in that following round. My bad there.

Here are your chat logs.

Summary
Line 651: [2020-07-19 17:07:27.627] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "NANCY CAN DECLARE ANYONE NON CREW!!!" (Central Primary Hallway (123, 115, 2))
	Line 672: [2020-07-19 17:07:40.315] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "Ai law 2 stop nancy from changing laws" (Locker Room (123, 149, 2))
	Line 704: [2020-07-19 17:07:55.854] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "ai law 2 stop nancy from changing laws" (Locker Room (135, 153, 2))
	Line 726: [2020-07-19 17:08:03.089] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "she will do the crew harm and the decrew law" (Locker Room (135, 153, 2))
	Line 743: [2020-07-19 17:08:10.251] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "which is totally not based and completely cringe" (Locker Room (135, 153, 2))
	Line 839: [2020-07-19 17:09:16.136] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "hello. wanna hear about my religion?" (Bar (132, 127, 2))
	Line 871: [2020-07-19 17:09:30.963] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "no its furry degeneracy" (Bar (132, 128, 2))
	Line 878: [2020-07-19 17:09:33.738] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "basically the same" (Bar (132, 128, 2))
	Line 895: [2020-07-19 17:09:44.297] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "ill have the monkey" (Bar (133, 128, 2))
	Line 918: [2020-07-19 17:09:56.614] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "i need it" (Bar (133, 126, 2))
	Line 920: [2020-07-19 17:09:57.643] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "alive" (Bar (133, 126, 2))
	Line 926: [2020-07-19 17:10:01.202] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "for religionus reasons" (Bar (133, 126, 2))
	Line 927: [2020-07-19 17:10:03.098] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "of course" (Bar (133, 126, 2))
	Line 941: [2020-07-19 17:10:07.442] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "yea buy" (Bar (133, 128, 2))
	Line 965: [2020-07-19 17:10:19.309] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "I need it for the forbidden roleplay" (Bar (134, 128, 2))
	Line 966: [2020-07-19 17:10:20.398] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "hmm" (Bar (134, 128, 2))
	Line 968: [2020-07-19 17:10:22.007] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "how much=" (Bar (134, 128, 2))
	Line 1029: [2020-07-19 17:10:53.791] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "my fursona is a kahjiit" (Bar (134, 128, 2))
	Line 1041: [2020-07-19 17:11:00.225] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "kahjiit does not like your business" (Bar (134, 128, 2))
	Line 1059: [2020-07-19 17:11:07.074] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "kahjiit sell wares somwhere else" (Bar (134, 128, 2))
	Line 1240: [2020-07-19 17:12:25.308] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "hey" (Aft Primary Hallway (107, 86, 2))
	Line 1251: [2020-07-19 17:12:29.070] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "is your fursona a pirate?" (Aft Primary Hallway (107, 87, 2))
	Line 1262: [2020-07-19 17:12:37.049] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "im a furry" (Aft Primary Hallway (107, 85, 2))
	Line 1276: [2020-07-19 17:12:43.015] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "wanna hear abotu my religion?" (Aft Primary Hallway (107, 83, 2))
	Line 1354: [2020-07-19 17:13:10.848] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "itsa bout say Ok" (Aft Primary Hallway (106, 103, 2))
	Line 1356: [2020-07-19 17:13:12.175] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "OK" (Aft Primary Hallway (106, 103, 2))
	Line 1393: [2020-07-19 17:13:27.500] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "edward blackbeard" (Central Primary Hallway (100, 114, 2))
	Line 1483: [2020-07-19 17:14:21.793] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "is nancy here?" (Fore Primary Hallway (111, 159, 2))
	Line 1488: [2020-07-19 17:14:24.032] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "shes my bestie" (Fore Primary Hallway (111, 159, 2))
	Line 1500: [2020-07-19 17:14:29.454] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "hey" (Fore Primary Hallway (110, 159, 2))
	Line 1515: [2020-07-19 17:14:33.712] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "sup bestie" (Fore Primary Hallway (108, 149, 2))
	Line 1576: [2020-07-19 17:14:53.766] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "wanna be a furry, bestie?" (Port Primary Hallway (86, 139, 2))
	Line 1605: [2020-07-19 17:15:08.617] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "its not bestiality if you are an animal" (Central Primary Hallway (91, 144, 2))
	Line 1894: [2020-07-19 17:17:09.629] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "loser" (Dormitories (138, 157, 2))
	Line 1927: [2020-07-19 17:17:24.558] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "wana become" (Central Primary Hallway (126, 136, 2))
	Line 1934: [2020-07-19 17:17:28.857] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "a furry?" (Central Primary Hallway (126, 119, 2))
	Line 1943: [2020-07-19 17:17:32.977] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "like me" (Central Primary Hallway (126, 119, 2))
	Line 1963: [2020-07-19 17:17:38.919] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "im half human half cat" (Central Primary Hallway (126, 119, 2))
	Line 1969: [2020-07-19 17:17:42.419] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "meow" (Central Primary Hallway (126, 117, 2))
	Line 1991: [2020-07-19 17:17:50.486] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "DISRESPECT" (Hydroponics (129, 115, 2))
	Line 2007: [2020-07-19 17:18:03.679] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "yes" (Hydroponics (129, 115, 2))
	Line 2013: [2020-07-19 17:18:07.245] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "the forbidden roleplay" (Hydroponics (129, 115, 2))
	Line 2216: [2020-07-19 17:19:39.995] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "sorry" (Port Primary Hallway (81, 139, 2))
	Line 2247: [2020-07-19 17:19:52.593] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "hello" (Port Primary Hallway (70, 135, 2))
	Line 2265: [2020-07-19 17:19:56.789] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "wanna hear of my religion?" (Port Primary Hallway (70, 135, 2))
	Line 2304: [2020-07-19 17:20:09.762] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "AWW FUCK" (Customs (58, 138, 2))
	Line 2365: [2020-07-19 17:20:35.388] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "kind of overkill" (Customs (58, 138, 2))
	Line 2372: [2020-07-19 17:20:38.595] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "May I have his shit?" (Customs (58, 138, 2))
	Line 2433: [2020-07-19 17:21:00.392] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "im a furry" (Port Primary Hallway (58, 137, 2))
	Line 2469: [2020-07-19 17:21:18.370] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "also deaf" (Port Primary Hallway (83, 135, 2))
	Line 2493: [2020-07-19 17:21:36.399] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "are you idiots?" (Central Primary Hallway (99, 145, 2))
	Line 2497: [2020-07-19 17:21:37.587] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "just" (Central Primary Hallway (98, 145, 2))
	Line 2512: [2020-07-19 17:21:44.386] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "im deaf" (Central Primary Hallway (97, 144, 2))
	Line 2527: [2020-07-19 17:21:53.519] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "ok" (Fore Primary Hallway (106, 150, 2))
	Line 2534: [2020-07-19 17:21:56.671] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "i cant hear shit" (Fore Primary Hallway (106, 155, 2))
	Line 2595: [2020-07-19 17:22:20.444] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "I ehar now" (Brig (108, 166, 2))
	Line 2630: [2020-07-19 17:22:36.239] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "outside the booth" (Brig (110, 165, 2))
	Line 2638: [2020-07-19 17:22:37.882] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "why?" (Brig (110, 165, 2))
	Line 2664: [2020-07-19 17:22:49.104] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "no0" (Brig (110, 165, 2))
	Line 2674: [2020-07-19 17:22:53.283] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "just shoved" (Brig (110, 165, 2))
	Line 2721: [2020-07-19 17:23:10.228] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "hmm dont remember" (Brig (110, 165, 2))
	Line 2724: [2020-07-19 17:23:12.693] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "i think the clown" (Brig (110, 165, 2))
	Line 2730: [2020-07-19 17:23:14.230] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "and a robo" (Brig (110, 165, 2))
	Line 2756: [2020-07-19 17:23:29.205] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "ty" (Brig (109, 162, 2))
	Line 2805: [2020-07-19 17:23:50.763] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "yea but" (Central Primary Hallway (99, 145, 2))
	Line 2816: [2020-07-19 17:23:53.563] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "does it really need?" (Central Primary Hallway (99, 145, 2))
	Line 2824: [2020-07-19 17:23:55.986] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "A LAAW" (AI Upload Access (99, 146, 2))
	Line 2864: [2020-07-19 17:24:09.208] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "DOES IT REALLY NEED A NANCY DRUID LAW?" (AI Upload Chamber (99, 148, 2))
	Line 2914: [2020-07-19 17:24:25.692] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "yo" (AI Upload Access (99, 146, 2))
	Line 2950: [2020-07-19 17:24:39.083] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "HELP" (Arrival Shuttle Hallway (53, 145, 2))
	Line 2954: [2020-07-19 17:24:41.429] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "KIDNAPPING" (Port Bow Maintenance (53, 151, 2))
	Line 2957: [2020-07-19 17:24:43.779] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "EDWARD" (Port Bow Maintenance (53, 157, 2))
	Line 2961: [2020-07-19 17:24:45.806] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "ARRIVBALS" (Port Bow Maintenance (53, 157, 2))
	Line 2981: [2020-07-19 17:24:57.704] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "kinda gay" (Port Bow Maintenance (72, 169, 2))
	Line 3008: [2020-07-19 17:25:11.144] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "fuck you" (Waste Disposal (69, 172, 2))
	Line 3042: [2020-07-19 17:25:26.208] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "help" (Port Bow Maintenance (74, 167, 2))
	Line 3143: [2020-07-19 17:26:06.157] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "SUBSCRIBERS ONLY" (Port Bow Maintenance (52, 169, 2))
	Line 3146: [2020-07-19 17:26:07.162] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "OY" (Port Bow Maintenance (49, 168, 2))

Thanks for the reply.

Your order resulted in AI fighting to its death attempts by Nancy to do a law change.

Which, I believe is is entirely on the AI and not my fault at all. I am not sure what was going on in the command chats, but I am pretty sure multiple law 2 requests have been made by the command staff to let Nancy into the upload. Furthermore, Nancy was Captain and a human (so not even asimov had a reason to ignore her), so she was considered crew by the AI and her orders and crew status was just as valid as mine. At no point would my order overrule Captain Nancy Druid’s orders.

Sometime mid round, I recall watching the CE and captain forcefully trying to get into the upload. The AI overrode the CE’s turret controls and was constantly fighting CE from letting Nancy into the upload. I was just a spectator in this situation, and the AI had no real reason to prevent Nancy into the upload or ignore/fight CE’s attempts to disable the upload turrets.

It seems to me that the AI player was ignoring it’s laws and metagrudging Nancy, and using my joke request (if it had noticed my request at all) as an excuse to take severe measures against having it’s laws rewritten. The AI would have no IC reason to prevent the Captain from getting into the upload, and could have dismissed my law 2 request as a joke, which honestly was the intention.

Here are your chat logs.

I don’t know. Doesn’t really seem that harsh. And I’ve never been bwoinked or noted for this behavior. I mean, if it’s over the line I’ll stop, but I don’t think it’s really ban worthy.

Line 726: [2020-07-19 17:08:03.089] SAY: Wisakejak/(Faye Delphne) "she will do the crew harm and the decrew law" (Locker Room (135, 153, 2))

With conflicting Law 2 orders it is up to AI’s discretion to decide what to follow. With addition of you saying law upload will result in crew harm the scales shift towards following your orders over Nancy.

I’ll wait for other admins input.

if you wanna get technical
crew harm doesnt exist for asimov ai

This was on Sage, where Crewsimov is the default.

1 Like

nevermind i read it wrong

Fair point. But through meta knowledge, we both suspected the captain was make a decrew law, but with IC knowledge, neither of us knew what law the captain was gonna input.

So does the AI have a real IC reason to fight the rightfully appointed captain from getting into the upload?

Once it has probable cause to believe cap intents to upload a law with the intention to cause crew/human harm without AI’s interference - yes.

Law 2 order to prevent law uploads with justification that she will upload decrewing/dehumaning law is sufficient for that. Then comes the question of whether the one giving that order had good enough reason to do so.
Your reason was metaknowledge of what Nancy likes to do as captain.

Yes but I would argue someone jokingly saying it over comms is not exactly probable cause, as the captain had not commited or threatened to cause any offense, and she was the rightfully appointed captain.

I believe, if in a situation where the RD would order the AI to prevent the HoP, as provisory captain, from getting into upload, the AI would have probable cause to take either one’s side. But in our situation, I think the AI just based it’s decision on metaknowledge, maybe even a little bit of metagrudge, and was entirely unjustified.

EDIT:

Your reason was metaknowledge of what Nancy likes to do as captain.

Maybe, but you could also argue that it was a joke at the expense of the captain. Had it been any other captain, the joke would still had made sense.

And even if not, I would have not intended it to end up in an all out war between the command and the AI over the upload.

Order is order. Until getting counter order it HAS TO prevent entry. After getting counter order there is space for negotiation but still, for AI it is not just a joke. It is an appeal to its Law 1. Intentional one.

You can say so, but still it is a human behind the curtains and it can use its better judgement to make decisions.

It did receive multiple orders from the command staff to let the captain in, and I believe it relied heavily on metaknowledge when making its decisions.

Yes, and because of your order he was in the clear. Because Crewsimov lawset does not establish hierarchy of orders.

So what reason did it have to forbid the captain (who has access to the area) and multiple command staff from getting into the upload?

There was no indication that any of them intended to do crew harm.

The order cannot be overriden by anyone but you. They can add new orders and AI can choose which order to obey if they conflict.

Yes, I get that. But I do believe that the AI made it’s decisions only out of metagrudge and to spite Nancy. I don’t think I am at fault here at all, and this situation would have resolved differently had it been different players.

While I have input on the situation, I do not believe it is the reason this situation turned out this way.

You were the only one to give AI order to keep Nancy out of upload. You were the one to justify it by saying Nancy was going to upload decrewing law.
I can’t divine AI’s motivation. I can judge if an IC action has IC justification. And because of your order AI’s actions had IC justification.

I am willing to lift global ban. So long as you keep in mind that giving orders to AI will have you held responsible for AI’s actions in obeying that order as long as it does not break its Laws.

Sage ban stays though, I think. Your catgirl act is a bit too memey for MRP. It’s fine on LRP… though LRP players may not like it much.

T’is a fate worse than death.

But thanks for the appeal. Maybe another mod can give their opinion?

Fair enough, but a FULL WEEK ban from sage for a single joke that they had no idea would be taken to such an extreme is a bit too much. Besides, if the Pham Chan degeneracy shit isn’t bannable this sure as hell isn’t.

Hmm. Good point. Imma lift global ban now. And think on Sage ban for a bit more.