CKEY:
viciousoreilly Admin’s CKEY:
mcmeiler Ban Type:
Job Ban Ban Length:
Permanant Ban Date (YYYY/MM/DD/):
2022-05-03 18:22:19 Round ID:
37858 Ban Reason:
Shot an explorer with lethals for crimes which did not warrant so. Stopped respondind mid-ticket. Appeal on forums. Appeal Reason:
The purpose of replacing your arm with a chainsaw is not “to cut down trees” like the admin insisted. It is literally impossible for an explorer to encounter a tree on Delta station outside of either holodeck, or hijacking a nuke op shuttle to the nuke op base.
Trees do not bleed so even if this were the case, a bloodstained chainsaw arm is a pretty good clue that it was not being used to cut trees.
The job of an explorer isn’t to cut trees in any case, it is to do missions. I don’t care about the bullshit excuses they kept shouting about how they are ENTITLED to weapons (as they described it!) for reasons they refused to articulate. They also did not do or even accept a single mission so encountered no hostile mobs.
Even if the blood soaked chainsaw arm was somehow intended to be used to cut down trees and the explorer genuinely intended to use it to cut down any trees they come accross, it was used to attack the HoS who is NOT a tree. It being used as a weapon makes it a weapon.
Even if the chainsaw arm was somehow not a weapon despite being used as such, space law requires that “any tools that were used to commit crimes” are removed from a prisoner during brigging. This includes tools for cutting down trees that were used in a violent crime.
A violent convicted criminal stealing sec gear with, and I cannot stress this enough, a fucking chainsaw attatched as an arm, warrents lethal force as per both the escelation policy and space law. “Armed and Dangerous - if a suspect is in possession of weapons, including stun weapons, and you have reasonable suspicion that they will use these against you, lethal force is permitted. Although in the majority of cases it is still preferable to attempt to detain them non-lethally.”
Lethal weapons are allowed on blue alert, as per SOP.
The dude literally and explicitly demanded to be shot while resisting arrest before he’d return any sec gear. If you are caught red handed and held up at gunpoint, and still refuse to hand over the stolen gear and instead yell “SHOOT ME THEN!”, then in my mind there’s a reasonable expectation that you’ll be shot. They were free not to do that. The hold up feature gives them huge red letters telling them what to do to surrender.
Demanding to be shot then spending the entire round threatening “this is your last warden round” and “cc will punish you for this” screams ban-baiting to me.
They were shot in the leg once (1 time) with default-loaded buckshot to slow their running and were immediately patched up. They weren’t even given brig time.
Additional Information:
I had to go help my partner for 4 or 5 minutes after giving a detailed answer to all the admin’s questions, during that time they closed the ticket and refused to reopen it. They demanded I post here.
There are no logs of the HoS being attacked with a chainsaw arm. The only interactions I could find between the explorer and the HoS was disabler fire and shoves.
You’re forgetting a part of that sentence there.
[…], until they can be returned to their rightful owners.
From logs, the chainsaw was not used in a single crime. It was used to smash windows in EORG, and to smash an already dead nightmare in medbay.
In the ticket, you, and I quote, told me they stole sechuds. From this, I can deduct you were going to shoot an explorer who had not used that arm at all over stealing sechuds.
Lethal force is not the same as lethal weapons.
There are no logs of “SHOOT ME THEN!”. The closest ones I could find was: “shoot me” “for having a chainsaw”. To which, you proceeded to shoot them.
So you even admit to shooting them for no reason beyond them asking? Asking to be shot is not a reason to be shot, nor is it a reason to apply lethal force to a person while playing the warden.
Y’know, you could’ve told me about that. If you had, I likely wouldn’t have closed the ticket after waiting over 7 minutes for a response post end of round.
You can’t seriously be hinging this entire appeal on the fact that I didn’t know until literally you posted this that the chainsaw wasn’t used? They got dragged in, covered in blood, with bloody hands and chainsaw, and an additional bloody knife in their bag. I’m sorry if I forgot to check the admin logs before making the, apparently unreasonable, assumption that the obvious weapons covered in blood were used in the assault. Not even the testimony of the culprit suggested any different, the only ‘explanation’ they gave was crying that the arrest was illegal and that security was maiming them for no reason.
I didn’t quote this part because it’s irrelevant. At no point did I or any other security players even touch the chainsaw, at no point was it in any part of the brig except as part of the explorer’s hand, and in any case the explorer isn’t the “rightful owner” of an improvised weapon just because they have it. I wouldn’t return punji pits or bows to botanists just because they made them either, even if I was given the dogshit excuse that a bow is to hunt deer.
This is functionally the exact same thing.
They were shot in the leg to slow them down because upon being released they immediately fill their pockets with brig gear and start running, then they refused both verbal orders to hand the stolen gear over and the opt in stun from the hold up feature. I didn’t take “shoot me” as a request to be shot, I took it as them acknowledging that I was serious about using the shotgun pointed at them and deciding that daring me over it was a better idea than just handing over the shades. When they started running after that, I blasted their leg. I knew for a fact that a single shot to a limb (or even multiple shots with non buckshot rounds) is not lethal, especially when they were standing tiles away from a medibot. I stand by using the shotgun for this because it worked to get the stolen huds and they were at full health around 10 seconds later.
The intent was never lethal force and I’d say I was successful in using it nonlethally, as they didn’t enter crit once. Besides when a doctor fucked up the amputation procedure later.
Also I’d like to be very clear here that the idea that the chainsaw arm was a lumberjack tool rather than a weapon was only brought up in the admin ticket after I gave my account of what happened. If this happened in game I would have dismissed it as bad-faith rules lawyering, but it didn’t. At no point was there any pretence that the chainsaw was not a weapon, only that explorers are entitled to open-carry whatever weapons they feel like.
This isn’t how lethal force works. Lethals == lethal force, regardless of how they are used. You don’t seem to understand this.
So once again, instead of using the disabler you spawn with, you opt for lethal force for them stealing sechuds. This is massively over-the-top.
Beyond them having a bloody chainsaw, you had no evidence it was used in a crime.
I’m fine with reducing this to 3 days, starting from the ban date, and I think I’ll save myself the headache of arguing about lethal force with someone who doesn’t understand the concept of “lethal”.
Stop using lethal force in cases that don’t warrant it.