CKEY: vaporwhisp
Your Discord: UltraMagnus#2120
Offender’s CKEY: Unknown
Offender’s In-Game Name: Han Becker
Server (Sage or Acacia): Acacia
Date (MM-DD-YYYY): 09-08-2021
Round Number: 2021-09-08
Rules Broken: R1 and R3
Incident Description: I was playing captain, the debtor(Cinere Obustus) brought me a paper boat and insisted I wear it as a hat, so I unfolded it, and saw that it was the “SM shard instructions” paper traitors get when that’s their objective. Instead of being an ass, I forensic scanned the paper, and used the information to catch the actual bad man. That ACTUAL traitor cooperated, and while I was processing him (implant removal and paxing), the CMO starts screaming about the debtor having emagged multiple doors and a borg.
I tell them the emag belonged to the geneticist I had just finished processing, and was secured, so it couldn’t be Cinere, the CMO attacked the debtor, and nearly beat him to death over suspicion of him being a traitor. When told to cease, they said it was “within their rights because there’s no security” They conducted an unlawful search against the captains orders, and continued to yell and scream about it.
They showed a fundamental misunderstanding of how a very common gimmick job works, failed to show any compassion at all to someone playing their role, and committed “minor mutiny” by refusing to follow my orders.
Additional Information: For the sake of transparency, I did ask them in looc: “are you roleplaying an idiot or?” and was issued a three day ban for the interaction. I will be appealing this ban, however, but that is not a conversation for THIS post. [vaporwhisp] banned by [Ivniivi](Auth inithis)
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I would like to weigh in! I was WIRE that round, a miner who mostly mined on astroids. I had 0 comms for most of the shift but I did see that. The debtor was launched through disposals with minor bruising on their prosthetic. Han walked in, grabbed the debtor, and used a baton on him while dragging him away. I did not see the debtor bleed or take anymore damage!
small addition, if what I said is toxic, and deserves a ban, then please apply the rules evenly.
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I was the AI, Commissar.
I noted multiple emagged doors near and around the debtor’s location. I saw my borg near them. I saw sparks on (or at least over) the borg, and came to the combined conclusion at a minimum that the debtor was violating space law, and possibly tampering with my borg.
CMO, to my knowledge, never actually purposfully harmed the debtor by “nearly beating him to death.” All I saw was the CMO using their baton non-lethally.
Overall when there is no security I don’t blame heads of staff for stepping up to the plate if they’re willing. I do think that CMO could have used a bit more patience and done a more deliberate investigation other than “traitor gear, he bad.”
Overall if you two weren’t so eager to grab each other’s necks and wring them I would have said it’s a fun “fog of war” style moment, where we’re all acting as best we can on the information we had at the time.
Hey there! Im the CMO in question! Lots to unpack here.
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I didn’t “start screaming about the debtor having emagged multiple doors and a borg.” The AI informed me over command comms, which you almost certainly heard, that they believed the debtor had emagged a borg of theres, and had emagged into tech storage. After which, I then asked AI to locate and assumed youd take action. After a while, I passed you in surgery doing an operation on someone! (Even though thats my job!) So with no sec, and us two being the only command, I decided I’d step in, believing them to be an armed traitor who was going loud.
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I did not “nearly beat him to death”. That is a complete and total lie. I morphined and dragged to security with a couple retractable baton hits. That is all. I did 0 damage, brute, or toxin. I made SURE of this, because AI was watching me, and so was the borg that I was HOPING wasnt emaged.
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I’ll admit to technical wrongdoing for the search, but with 0 security, the perp in my hand UNCUFFED (because I wasnt planning on making an arrest at all) and about to wake up at any moment, I felt WELL within my right to strip a traitor who I believed was going loud while the captain was doing god knows what it medical, instead of letting me handle my department. at which point I found a syndicate autosurgeon and, smugglers satchel and a flash. At which point, I left! Went back to medical and attempted to continue my job.
It was THEN that you begun to consistently berate me on my actions, and when I tried to defend myself, talk this over, and asked why you were so frustrated, you said “because you violated SOP and are arguing with a commander.”. Then went so far as to break rp to say this:
I remained calm, understanding, and attempted to talk it out without throughout the shift, even saying “it would make me happy if you showed any willingness to cooperate.” I did not “sceam” or whatever you think I was doing. Anyone with logs can confirm this. ill accept whatever comes to me for the comment I made ooc, it was uncalled for and rude. But You went above and beyond to give me a terrible experience this shift, after all that, then an ioned AI and crew who had heard the story from your perspective harassing me all shift, I was a bit flustered. I hope if I was in the wrong then this all gets sorted out.
First bit, fine. AI can’t possibly see everywhere at once, and cannot be expected to have the full picture just like any other player. You did fine, all things considered.
All I saw was the CMO using their baton non-lethally.
There was a blood trail leading behind the debtor as he was dragged to the brig, and after the round, the debtor player confirmed they became addicted to morphine after being drugged by the CMO.
I was handling security at the time. Quite well, I might add. I apprehended a traitor using forensic evidence, and no blood was spilled. Interference from the CMO would have been requested if it was needed, but it wasn’t. Instead, the CMO took it upon themselves to drug someone who had done no harm, and leap into combat with someone who should be regarded as dangerous and unstable.
There was a blood trail leading behind the debtor as he was dragged to the brig, and after the round, the debtor player confirmed they became addicted to morphine after being drugged by the CMO.
I dont have time to worry about blood trails, or addictions to the substances I use to stun when I am convinced im dealing with a confirmed traitor who is going loud, with 0 sec and no cuffs.
I was handling security at the time. Quite well, I might add.
You were in medical the entire time this event took place. You even said “wait till i get there” when I had what I believed to be an armed traitor, about to wake up any second, in my hands. What were you doing in medical? My job.
I was watching sensors the whole time (debtor was on exact vitals) they had something like 10-15 brute damage for the duration of the chase. I don’t recall seeing a blood trail.
No shell, can’t know that personally.
CMO acted, from my point of view, as best they knew how given the information they were provided. As the situation developed and more information became available it became clear that the debtor was really only subject to a couple minor crimes. You, the captain, were busy with the traitor while another threat presented itself. The CMO elected to act.
Hi I was the debtor this shift, and thought I would share my side of things as I remember them.
About 20 minutes before being seen in the board storage room, i gave the captain a syndicate note i found in maint detailing stealing an SM shard. About 5 minutes before I showed the borg in question where I found it along with the autodoc i found.
1 walked around maint with janiborg, saw an open door to circuit room, lit a cigarette with an igniter causing sparks , took some harmless boards (an autolathe, and camera board) for use in gags
2 while in sci hallway stunned and cuffed by beepsky
3 seconds later grabbed by cmo with no words and dragged to medical
4 buckle cuffed to stasis bed
5 cmo accidentally unbuckles, i attempt to run (as both command and medbay are phobias for me the debtor)
6 shot with morpheme in the head
7 jump in robotics disposals and attempt to run
8 after running grabbed and permastunned by CMO, dragged to brig,stripped, bucklecuffed to bed with no timer set. At this point still not one word had been said to me.
9 cap intervenes
I spent probably 40 minutes in the brig before being cavity searched.
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also this was my first post here, if I did something wrong please let me know
Looks perfectly fine. Sorry that my paranoia caused so much trouble. There was zero communication towards me about who was or wasn’t a traitor, so I figured that you might’ve subverted my borg.
I didn’t see the AI mention his borg being emagged once, and if you had waited the time it took me to finish processing the ACTUAL traitor, we could have spoken about all the goodies he had, the emag included, instead, you LEAPT into combat with someone of a job that you clearly misunderstand. If you did, you would have hesitated to engage him at all, being a sane person who wants to stay alive.
Surgery on ACTUAL CONFIRMED TRAITORS needs to be overseen by either the Captain or the HoS, due to the inherent danger of the interaction. How much closer can I oversee than by being the one doing the surgery? I’m not the only captain who’s done surgery on traitors, and I won’t be the last.
As a doctor, you should ALWAYS be worried about the health of someone you are interacting with, the Hippocratic oath and all that. He was literally incapable of waking up at the time, due to a crippling fear of authority (dont know the actual trauma he spawned with) but that doesn’t excuse you jumping on him, and drugging him.
The first I ever noticed ther was an emag in play was from emagged doors. So, not knowing that you’d found that emag I was under the impression that it was still in play.
Hell! I didn’t even know for sure that the one-armed idiot you were dragging around brig was a traitor! I thought he’d just blown himself up or something!
Sorry I’m the JaniBorg that was messing around with the Debtor (didn’t trust him not to release the goose again) I called the possible crew harm as I saw damage and had not seen any reason for him to have been arrested (I’m still getting used to stuff so not too sure what is crew harm or not but I had found blood behind them as they headed to sec). Before CMO had come to grab him AI had asked me about what the Debtor had been doing and I remember detailing that he ran around maint a bit passed out and then had a heart attack where he was taken to medical and was there all the way up to and past when the emag happened. The emagging had also been called out on comms while he was still unconscious.
First post sorry if it’s a mess
Yeah, I didn’t even fully go through ALL his goodies, he coulda’ve had even more in there, but I saw the SM bin, and emag, ans just cracked straight on, removed his gun arm (Coulda removed the implant but there should be SOME punishment for being a criminal), paxxed, got a new ID, and sent on his way. Where he then went SSD until I cryo’d him shorty before the bwoink.
Edit: Hadn’t had time to tell ANYONE what I’d found because it instantly went into dealing with the debtor. If the CMO had waited for me to be available, this all could’ve been cleared up without even IC conflict.
So Vapor, I want you to do something really quick. Put yourself kinda in the CMO’s shoes.
- You’re the second in command of the station.
- Your AI reports a possibly emagged borg and an assistant with them in tech storage, where the door has been emagged open.
- Your captain is busy with other things and not responsive.
What are you going to do? Wait and let a threat continue, or move to take action? Take the fact that you told NOBODY (to my knowledge) that you found a traitor into account.
I mainly play CE, so I can approach this from that perspective really well, I think. Borg maintenance is outside my purview as neither the Captain nor RD. My responsibility lies in the integrity of the structure, as the CMO’s lies on the personnel.
AI reports an emagged borg, I grab my flash for self defence and hunker down in my department, or continue my work. I wait for the people who normally handle these things to be reported incapacitated BEFORE leaping to combat, or handling situations that fall outside my purview. CE doesn’t have access to suit sensors by default (I can build any terminal I like, but that’s a separate thing), while the CMO does.
He could have checked sensors any time, seen where I was, and come and spoken to me. He instead decided that fighting the person who potentially could have annihilated them in around 45 different ways was the best course of action. As a head of staff, you should be expected NOT to jump at the threat unless you have NO other options. Those options were yet to be exhausted.
I’ll concede that I probably should’ve taken the time to say SOMETHING, but as any experienced Sec or Captain player will tell you, every moment you waste is a moment they could pull some Houdini bullshit.
I’m gonna post this and then go to bed, let’s hope this gets resolved. I’ll tank my three-day ban, HAPPILY, as long as the rules are not applied incongruously, if I’m banned for being toxic, then they should be too.
I’ve said my piece at this point, and have nothing more to add.
don’t drag other people in your sinking ship, showing other people’s logs does nothing for your own
This kinda feels like a misunderstanding on both parts to me tbh
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I think it’s more a difference in perspective.
