Offender’s CKEY: Unknown (forgot to check staffwho)
Offender’s In-Game Name (if relevant): N/A
Date (MM-DD-YYYY): 05-28-2023
Round Number: 44221
Rules Broken (if relevant): N/A
Part of Admin/Mentor Conduct Broken (if relevant): Antagonist round inappropriately affected by an Administrator’s interference
Incident Description: There was an incursion that spawned with no objectives, and the admins instead gave them objectives to kill both of the naturally spawned traitors, without alerting them in any way to the fact they were being basically turned into excommunicates, like normal excommunicates would be. In addition, I have excommunicate completely disabled in my preferences, and incursions only have to kill heads of staff, the AI, or excommunicates, so it would have been impossible for me to be a target of the incursion at all without admin interference. This directly led to my round removal, due to them subverting the AI to kill me, and me being lasered to death in the AI satellite when I thought it was still subverted to me.
I’ve swear i’ve also seen them get regular crew as objective, odd, though if code says otherwise eh, that might explain why sometimes they get a double KILL AI objective or similar stuff.
While i do agree the admin should’ve at least sent you a message akin to ‘‘you hear a voice behind your head’’ to inform you that Syndicate disowned you or something like that to create some extra flavor and to not be a one-sided murder… Isn’t it a little bit Meta to think and play like ‘‘Okay, since i have ex-comm disabled i will not get targeted by incursion therefore i can do my own thing’’ I mean, at the end of the day incursion can absolutely attack a regular traitor if a situation warrants it, like… just for
wanting your TC/gear or being in the wrong place-wrong time if anything even if the incursion didn’t had you as their objective i can totally see this happening on a regular round where Incursion just out-subvert the AI from you because of a bad timing and the AI took you down since they were not loyal to you anymore, at best AI could’ve mentioned it to themand you could’ve been revived if you weren’t a target.
I mean, leaving the involvement of the admin aside it goes more to the point that your statement makes it seems like your round won’t get affected by other antagonists even if they’re ‘‘aligned’’ and that your mentality seems to have a base on ‘‘ok i definetly won’t be targeted by incursion since i always have excom disabled and be able to do my shenanigans’’ when in truth, your round can go downhill for multiple reasons anytime, as my example above in the hypotethical scenario that the incursionists didn’t had you as a target you would’ve been a collateral to them since they just out-subverted the AI and you ended up dead because the AI was no longer loyal to you
In any case ‘‘ICly’’ depends. If the Syndicate wanted to get rid of a traitor to the company or someone disowned they obviously wouldn’t inform them because… why would you want them to be prepared when you sent a strike team to take out the trash?
Gameplay wise the ex-comms know because it’s to create a better traitor gameplay between two parties + the station.
Regardless i do think that it would’ve been better to inform you via a message of your new ‘‘status’’ as a syndicate traitor just for the sake of having you have more involved rather than randomly get shot by them, which in normal circumstances can also happen(Hijack, collateral, they want your loot, rp revenge, etc)
I think if i see it correctly is thats shion has ex-comm disbaled to specifically not be a traitor who is targeted by the incursion.
I can totally understand thats as she specifically has ex-comm set to disabled so she does not want this situation.
And thats seems to be just ignored in this case by the admin who did it ( maybe they coudl have also asked the tots before hand?)
I think it’s fair to say that you should have been given a warning in the same way that excomms do, but that was more than likely an oversight. It’s a strech to say that anything here was an actual breach of our conduct. If anything it might be worth a token.
Odds are they didn’t think to check that, I probably wouldn’t have. But even if they did you can’t just leave an incursion team walking around with no objectives.
the no objecitve i can understand but i am uncertain can you even check if someoen has certain antags enabled ( i kinda forgot).
But i personnaly find being a ex-comm one of the worst antags possible to be as it lead to some of the most unfun situation or fast RRs possible.
Also yeah a warning or a chance to even react to this change shoudl have been given so the traitors ( the nromals onces) were aware of it and maybe ahelp thats they not be excomms as they in the antag options psecifically have it disabled.
I think this should be less about the admin and more about the people who RRd.
I’ve been excommunicated and it leads to some fun shoot outs and straight up movie situations.
Sometimes other traitors have kill objective for normal traitors as well.
This round would have been inappropriately affected by an Admin IF they turned you into a dog or something.
They didn’t RR you. The incursion members did.
You turned into an excommunicated with the Perfs off like a Blood Cultist would.
(Just arguing for the other side because I do not want admins to be afraid of affecting a round because of minimal things like this. If they had no objectives this intervention was important. I know I’m not related to the incident but I believe this is important to say. Cheers.)
cults are a conversion antag it woudl be pretty shit just because someone didnt have it enabled thats you couldnt convert them. but for Ex-comm we have a specific option to even become one. so you have to choose to be one and cant accidently be one.
before it you if you had traitor enabled woudl get excomm even if you didnt want to play as one just as tot, a lot of peopel complained abotu this as ex-comm is somethign different from traitor so just makign a tot who didnt want to be a excomm , basically a ex-comm with out being told or even notified of this is just a bad thing as the player who made the report didnt want this. The admin deciced yeah they should have some more harder targets but the player/s in question didnt receive a single notification thats a Team is now hunting them. If a tot gets another tot as a target they dont know they are a tot to start with and you are only mostly hunted by a singular person and not a team of 3-5 people.
Normally the Incursion Team would be targeting a handful of people, this notably includes (excommunicated) Traitors. However during this round the Incursion team wasn’t give any objectives other than to Escape Alive, so they were given new objectives. Their new objectives involved assassinating other Traitors, similar to what Incursion teams would normally be assigned.
There was no way to randomly select who their Traitor targets would be, as there were only two traitors in the round and both were being given as targets.
The admin here saw what appears to be a bug with incursion and took the most straightforward approach to address the issue in-round. This is exactly what they should be doing in a situation such as this. That effects their rounds, sure, but I’d hardly consider it to be innappropriately effecting them. Your antag rounds aren’t sacred.
The only problem I can find with this is that they forgot to inform the Traitors about what was happening, and normally they would have been informed. Even then this still doesn’t breach any of our policy.
yeah the not informing part is key so then the traitor coudl maybe asked not to be targeted or have their traitor removed. i know also thats antags roudn arent sacred
I was the admin in question to clear it up and to be clear yeah i just didn’t think to provide the “you are being targeted” message. Incursion had no objectives at all and ahelped it right as i was getting offline, so i assigned them two assassinates and a steal. Making sure the assisinates were traitors because incursion.
So the real question here is if you deserve an antag token or not.
I don’t believe acronad acted with malicious intent or otherwise intentionally tried to ruin your round. This was just an honest mistake (not informing you about your “antag change”).
There was no admin conduct broken here.
What has to be investigated via logs is to how much of an extent your antag round was “ruined” by being an incursion target.
Even if you have excommunication turned off in your settings, there is still a small chance to roll it naturally. But you do get a message in that case.
In this case here the admin did not directly ruin your round, but indirectly. He didn’t nuke you with a meteor, but just made you a target of another antagonist (here a group of traitors).
I don’t see a reason to give an antag token if you got killed by the incursion at the end of like a two hour shift. Your round was not ruined, you were basically able to fully play your shift.
On the other hand if the incursion killed you early into the shift or while you were still trying to run a gimmick then that might warrant an antagonist token.
I haven’t looked into the logs yet but posting this here to clear up the “back and forth” argument and discussion in this admin report.
I died quite a bit before the crew transfer vote, and I was attempting to do a minor gimmick where I uploaded a law to the AI to make it minorly inconvenience the station (although I had unknowingly fucked this up and just double uploaded a “protect Shion” law instead) - in fact, I died because the incursion subverted the AI to kill me right as I went to its sat to give it a surveillance upgrade to help with the mischief.
Apologies for taking this long to finish the report, as I’ve already said earlier the admin was not at fault here, mistakes happen. What matters now is if you are eligible for an antag token or not.
Later on you enter the AI satellite and give it a surveillance upgrade, which ultimately leads to you dying when the AI turns on their lethal turrets due to having had a law change.
From what I can tell here by looking at the logs, I really don’t think your round was in pretty much any way influenced by the admin forgetting to inform you about being the incursions target. You died after having already played for a bit more than an hour.
The AI being subverted while you are in their satellite could’ve had many causes and I don’t believe you wouldn’t have done the same thing even if you had known you were the incursions target.
To summarize:
Acronad broke no part of conduct here considering it was an honest mistake and I don’t have any reason to believe they acted maliciously.
I’d also say that your round was not “ruined” by the admin forgetting to inform you that you are the incursions target. You played a big part of your round, and I don’t believe you would have not entered the AI satellite to apply the surveillance upgrade to the AI (you yourself subverted), even if you had known that you were the incursions target.
Thank you for the report nonetheless and apologies for taking this long to resolve the antagonist token part of this report.
