Unjust ban appeal

Ban Appeals Game Appeals
1

CKEY: Arbalezt

Admin’s CKEY: BrawlerHorde

Is this for both servers or just one? If so, which one: Sage

Which server did the ban happen on? Sage

**Ban Type:**Command and sec

Ban Length: 5 days

Ban Date (MM/DD/YYYY): just now

Round ID: 15126

Ban Reason:

977×110 7.17 KB

Appeal Reason:
Brawler is shit at checking the logs: Event happened as follows:

  • Before I come in:

Curator arms botany with guns

Curator dies and asks to be cloned as pod person, this is his former body:

And this is his pod person body, the one I stunned, when all of this began:

  • Here I come in:

I see somebody looting a dead corpse in botany, I go in for the arrest, because I need to figure why is a dead guy being looted, this is a ling round so anybody might pull a shriek and armblade on me. I take stun baton in hand, I stun the person looting the dead guy. While they are downed, one of the botanists, one with long purple hair, that I believe to be this person:

They pull out a laser gun and start shooting at me, I drop the idea of arrest, run away to heal up and call in sec. I then go back in together with sec, guns blazing. The 2 people that had guns were the botanist previously mentioned and the curator. End result of the shootout? 1 Dead, curator, and at least 1 crit, the Jimmy Gibbs guy that is in perma is the crit guy. One botanist is missing, I find him later and do nothing further to him, and one I cuff and arrest myself, that is Alfred Jones.

I take the guy to the brig for a talking to. I end up letting him go because I can find no lethal weaponry on him and only 2 laser guns were there. He does admit to making spears and booby trapping the place, which he continued to do after his release.

And the 3rd botanist, I met later in medbay, he had a missing arm, I healed him in the sleeper and he went about his business after I asked him some questions.

To conclude:

  • Curator, had warden’s ID, had laser guns, one of which he distributed to botany, Brawler claims he is innocent and bans me.

Additional Information:
As for the report:

This was some shit admemeing by Brawler. First off all I was accused of murdering an innocent person BECAUSE HE SAW THE SOULLESS BODY IN BOTANY, but he did not check his pod person body in reeducation!! You can see this is in the ticket logs, that he thought the soulless corpse in botany is the one that he claims I killed.

Secondly, even if that was his body, arming up botany, which later resulted in a shootout, and he was on the offender side AND on top of it all he had the ID of the warden that suicided earlier in the shift that is capital as fuck.

2

i guess this is what appeals are for

3

Owning lethal weapons from a gateway mission is not grounds for execution. I’ll have the logs to back this up if necessary, but the exact progression of events was:

  • Confirmed Changeling round by this point
  • Curator acquires weapons from gateway
  • You stun Curator
  • Botanist shoots you for attacking their friend for seemingly no reason (Over-escalation)
  • You return and decide everyone in the room is worth killing/critting, including one previously completely unrelated person. (Over-escalation)

Curator never resisted arrest or fought back until you came in guns blazing against him, on a ling round where you might not even be the actual captain. Unauthorized possession of a weapon is not a capital crime, especially possession by someone who was given gateway access for a dangerous away mission.

First off all I was accused of murdering an innocent person BECAUSE HE SAW THE SOULLESS BODY IN BOTANY

No, that isn’t the case. You were accused of murdering an innocent person because you chose to escalate to lethal force against everyone in an entire department and then left someone who didn’t take unreasonable action against you to rot on the floor in sec. If a captain comes at you with lethal force for no reason on a changeling round, are you just going to sit there and take it or fight back under the premise it’s probably not the captain?

I would be pretty curious to know why they had the Warden’s ID (and I did see them in possession of the PDA in the logs), but that’s still not a reason to keep them dead when you didn’t have a justifiable reason to kill them in the first place.

4

Botanist shot a head of staff, the security staff at that. That IS a capital crime, worthy of execution. He was also in collusion with the curator, aiding and abetting chalks it up to two executable foes that opened fire first.

5

The Curator never opened fire until being hit with lethals himself afterwards. Curator didn’t even resist. Distributing guns is not capital crime when the entire station is paranoid as fuck, especially since the guns weren’t stolen.

6

I didnt say anything about distributing guns. Botanist committed an aggressive capital crime while hos was checking his buddy. They’re equally guilty of the crime as per space law.

7

Hold up, you’re telling me I’m guilty of the capital crime of shooting the captain if someone I’m friendly with shoots the captain? That’s definitely BS and not true.

8

Distributing it to possible lings and then using it against the person that appears to be the captain and that is using a stun baton on non lethal definitely is.

NOT EVEN HARM INTENT, not overscalation, he had a WARDEN’S PDA on the ground and was looting a corpse in botany!!

Negative, the only people I shot at were the botanist who shot at me and the curator himself, who had an laser gun as well. Everybody else that might have gotten shot was collateral, WHICH HAPPENS IN A CONFINED AREA WITH 4 PEOPLE and then like 7 people when sec comes.

Edit clarification: When I saw the curator pulling out a laser gun and shooting at me, he became a target as well.

I stunned him, he couldn’t resist. I backed off after being shot at WITH LETHALS, I then came back in and shot only at the curator who shot me, but guess what, CURATOR HAD A LASER GUN TOO

Edit: I rushed while typing. I meant to say shoot at the botanist who shot me, but the curator had a laser gun too.

Distributing them to possible lings and using them against THE CAPTAIN definitely is.

Check logs, I got accused of murdering the soulless corpse of the curator, that I never touched, by brawler.

The only person who got killed was the curator, if any other person got killed they were revived, but by the end only curator sat dead.

Lethals came in AFTER I got shot with lethals myself!!

Captain was NEVER announced as killed or missing during that entire shift, sec ran around alive and well, there was 0 reason to suspect captain was not real captain.

Very much is, see above.

He pulled out a laser rifle and started shooting at me as I was coming in to lethal the botanist that shot at me in the first place. Them working together like that definitely puts them on the same line.

Worse, I was Captain, not HoS.

You definitely are if you then help in shooting the captain, which he did.

You are somehow using the fact that it was lings against me but not against them, despite me being the fucking CAPTAIN.

9

You’re completely twisting things out of order.

Distributing it to possible lings and then using it against the person that appears to be the captain and that is using a stun baton on non lethal definitely is.

You’re right, it would be if that’s what happened. The curator did not do this. The curator got stunned and didn’t fight back until you pulled and shot him with lethal lasers as if he was the botanist.

looting a corpse in botany

His own corpse with the same name he had. Warden PDA still confusing, but also still not worth execution.

Edit clarification: When I saw the curator pulling out a laser gun and shooting at me, he became a target as well.

The curator had already been shot multiple times before this point, as well as bystanders. From his perspective captain was either a ling or otherwise had gone crazy.

Distributing them to possible lings and using them against THE CAPTAIN definitely is.

The captain could just as easily be a ling as anyone else. That’s the nature of ling rounds. Random crew being armed is fine to punish for within reason. Killing someone for being armed is not cool. (Botanist? yeah sure, would have been fine. They opened fire on you for very little reason)

Lethals came in AFTER I got shot with lethals myself!!

This is only true for the botanist, not the Curator. The curator (and others in the room) were largely innocent by the point you came in guns blazing. Oh no, armed botanist defended himself from a crazy captain, he must be an enemy of the corporation since he isn’t a changeling.

The only person who got killed was the curator

And the curator was guilty of the least of the crimes. They didn’t open fire on you until it was self defense. They didn’t resist arrest until unreasonable force was used against them after being cooperative with sec prior to this encounter.

This isn’t going to go anywhere and you seem to remember events unfolding in a way that isn’t true, so I’ll get logs now.

10

As I previously stated, confined space, collateral is bound to happen.

Ye, this would have been cleared up, if I wouldn’t have gotten shot at with lethals.

Or was just shot at by a possible rogue department, they had bamboo spears and they booby trapped the entry door, mind you.

Considering like 3-4 sec came in response when I called and captain never got called out as ling by ANYBODY.

I didn’t get to check his bag and give him a timer for confiscating or you know, do this in any civil way, I got shot at, as captain, it became fight mode then, he pulled out a gun and shot as well, in league with the botanist.

Defends himself? With illegal guns? Against rightful arrest done with stun baton, by the highest authority on the station at that moment? Botanist was most in the wrong, for shooting first, second most in the wrong was curator, for distributing guns to possible lings as well as shooting at the captain. If he wanted to be a good boy, he would have surrendered on the ground, not pull a gun and shoot as well.

I am also requesting another admin log check this as well, as I believe you are biased, both against me and for your friend, brawler.

11
The first exchange

[2020-04-26 03:38:29.484] ATTACK: DelicateFeet/(Jack Manstrong) has stripped the rainbow jumpsuit off no key/(Jack Manstrong) (NEWHP: -100) (Hydroponics (130, 111, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:38:31.952] ATTACK: DelicateFeet/(Jack Manstrong) has grabbed no key/(Jack Manstrong) passive grab (NEWHP: -100) (Hydroponics (130, 111, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:38:34.795] ATTACK: Arbalezt/(Phyllis Pretzel) has stunned DelicateFeet/(Jack Manstrong) (NEWHP: 100) (Hydroponics (129, 111, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:38:35.698] ATTACK: Arbalezt/(Phyllis Pretzel) has stunned DelicateFeet/(Jack Manstrong) (NEWHP: 100) (Hydroponics (129, 111, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:38:38.428] ATTACK: AetherLich/(Jimmy Gibbs) has shot Arbalezt/(Phyllis Pretzel) with the laser (NEWHP: 60.8) (Hydroponics (133, 111, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:38:41.013] ATTACK: AetherLich/(Jimmy Gibbs) has shot Arbalezt/(Phyllis Pretzel) with the laser (NEWHP: 50.8) (Hydroponics (132, 111, 2))


The second coming of the Captain and the fall of the Curator

[2020-04-26 03:39:27.527] ATTACK: Arbalezt/(Phyllis Pretzel) has shot AetherLich/(Jimmy Gibbs) with the laser (NEWHP: 78) (Hydroponics (140, 111, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:39:27.929] ATTACK: Arbalezt/(Phyllis Pretzel) has shot AetherLich/(Jimmy Gibbs) with the laser (NEWHP: 58) (Hydroponics (140, 111, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:39:28.420] ATTACK: Arbalezt/(Phyllis Pretzel) has shot AetherLich/(Jimmy Gibbs) with the laser (NEWHP: 38) (Hydroponics (140, 111, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:39:29.138] ATTACK: Arbalezt/(Phyllis Pretzel) has shot DelicateFeet/(Jack Manstrong) with the laser (NEWHP: 83.1) (Hydroponics (140, 111, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:39:32.767] ATTACK: Arbalezt/(Phyllis Pretzel) has shot Potato3/(Dean Domino) with the laser (NEWHP: 85) (Hydroponics (136, 114, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:39:35.170] ATTACK: Arbalezt/(Phyllis Pretzel) has shot DelicateFeet/(Jack Manstrong) with the laser (NEWHP: 62.9) (Hydroponics (142, 111, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:39:36.777] ATTACK: Arbalezt/(Phyllis Pretzel) has shot DelicateFeet/(Jack Manstrong) with the laser (NEWHP: 47) (Hydroponics (142, 111, 2))
… the moment the curator decides to defend himself instead of being killed by a crazy captain is after a being shot three times and a missed incendiary shot here, he misses his first two shots before being beaned with the second incendiary shot
[2020-04-26 03:39:40.711] ATTACK: Arbalezt/(Phyllis Pretzel) has fired at [floor] with the incendiary slug from Hydroponics (Hydroponics (141, 111, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:39:40.778] ATTACK: DelicateFeet/(Jack Manstrong) has fired at [floor] with the laser from Hydroponics (Hydroponics (139, 112, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:39:40.831] ATTACK: DelicateFeet/(Jack Manstrong) has fired at [floor] with the laser from Hydroponics (Hydroponics (139, 112, 2))
.
[2020-04-26 03:39:41.574] ATTACK: Arbalezt/(Phyllis Pretzel) has shot DelicateFeet/(Jack Manstrong) with the incendiary slug (NEWHP: 30.8) (Hydroponics (140, 111, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:39:41.696] ATTACK: DelicateFeet/(Jack Manstrong) has shot Arbalezt/(Phyllis Pretzel) with the laser (NEWHP: 80.9) (Hydroponics (139, 111, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:39:41.776] ATTACK: DelicateFeet/(Jack Manstrong) has shot Arbalezt/(Phyllis Pretzel) with the laser (NEWHP: 70.9) (Hydroponics (139, 111, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:39:42.261] ATTACK: Arbalezt/(Phyllis Pretzel) has shot DelicateFeet/(Jack Manstrong) with 12g shotgun slug (NEWHP: -23.2) (Hydroponics (141, 111, 2))


The fall of the Botanist who sparked the entire thing.

[2020-04-26 03:40:02.911] ATTACK: AetherLich/(Jimmy Gibbs) has shot VictorPride/(Zane Blake) with the laser (NEWHP: 71.9) (Hydroponics (136, 111, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:40:03.481] ATTACK: AetherLich/(Jimmy Gibbs) has shot VictorPride/(Zane Blake) with the laser (NEWHP: 61.4) (Hydroponics (134, 111, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:40:04.579] ATTACK: AetherLich/(Jimmy Gibbs) has shot DelicateFeet/(Jack Manstrong) with the laser (NEWHP: -103.7) (Hydroponics (134, 111, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:40:05.741] ATTACK: AetherLich/(Jimmy Gibbs) has shot VictorPride/(Zane Blake) with the laser (NEWHP: 47.4) (Hydroponics (132, 111, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:40:06.185] ATTACK: AetherLich/(Jimmy Gibbs) has shot VictorPride/(Zane Blake) with the laser (NEWHP: 33.4) (Hydroponics (131, 111, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:40:06.188] ATTACK: VictorPride/(Zane Blake) has shot AetherLich/(Jimmy Gibbs) with the laser (NEWHP: 18) (Hydroponics (134, 111, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:40:09.473] ATTACK: Potato3/(Dean Domino) has shot AetherLich/(Jimmy Gibbs) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 18) (Central Primary Hallway (127, 115, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:40:18.685] ATTACK: Brother_jeff/(Imhotep-Rich-Blood) has fired at AetherLich/(Jimmy Gibbs) with 12g shotgun slug from Hydroponics (NEWHP: 18) (Hydroponics (133, 111, 2))
[2020-04-26 03:40:18.687] ATTACK: Brother_jeff/(Imhotep-Rich-Blood) has shot AetherLich/(Jimmy Gibbs) with 12g shotgun slug (NEWHP: -19.5) (Hydroponics (133, 111, 2))

It’s going to go to someone else anyway, because I was the admin overseeing the log checks in the first place, and one telling him not to give you a full-ban for it.

Just because someone disagrees with you and your logic doesn’t mean they’re biased against you. I usually side with you and Zane both on most matters involving security enforcement. I fully admit that between the two of you, you frequently come off as trying to find an excuse to kill someone rather than actually wanting to keep the station secure though, and this definitely doesn’t help that.

12

I dont get what you’re not understanding ruko. Curator is the main perp being searched and detained. Botanist shoots Cap in back. They are now both involved in a capital crime. Botanist shouldn’t have shot the cap in the back. Why is this landing on the captain.

13

The times I kill someone are more high profile than the times I help or that I am fair. I do lean on the side of giving longer brig sentences though.

As for the case, thanks for the logs, I’ll sum it up here:

  1. I go for an arrest with stun baton
  2. I get shot at with lethals by the botanist, by this point it’s clearly some kind of collaboration going on, as he was defending his friend, with lethals, against the captain
  3. I back away, call sec and flank the door trap by going through maints
  4. I come out into botany, guns blazing, shoot the guy that shot me initially, curator, who was helped by said guy, steps up or the botanist dodges, and is now taking hits, he then also pulls a gun and fires on me
  5. Sec comes in, blasts the curator and the botanist
  6. Curator is now a corpse, botanist is in crit. They and at least 1 more botanist are transported to the brig.
  7. Curator’s body is deposited in reeducation, combatant botanist is healed and stored in perma, non-combatant botanist is questioned and then released.

Important note for anybody reading this and imagining themselves in the curator’s situation:

As long as you keep your non-combatant situation, even if you have broken less than capital space laws, you will be healed/revived by the people who crit you, besides specific exceptional circumstances, if said people have the responsibility to do so, that is if they are sec or non-antag crew.

Or else they will be OOC punished by admins.

If the curator never pulled a gun, or better still, if he had done the surrender verb, and I killed and left his body unrevived, this would have been 100% deserved ban and I would not have any arguments here.

14

The times I kill someone are more high profile than the times I help or that I am fair.

I felt that and it kind of burns to have that slapped back at me.
Awaiting further opinion (and potentially second log dive) from @GameAdmin at this point.

(Especially input from @BrawlerHorde, who got off for the night while this was in progress)

15

Ban reason: “Overescalated to lethal force on an innocent curator”

The curator is far from innocent. He provided these botanists with illegal weaponry, who then aided him to resist arrest by attempting to murder the captain, and later himself tried to murder the captain. From security’s point of view, the botanist and curator are aiding and abetting each other and subject to the same consequences.

I’m not sure what the curator expected was going to happen when the captain left initially, him to be forgotten about? Of course security was going to come back with lethals after his friend shot at the captain. If he had wanted this be resolved peacefully he’d have gone to the Brig and surrendered, but instead by staying in botany behind the traps and being guarded by his armed friend it was always going to end like this.

If someone is armed, you can escalate to lethal force. They were all armed. There was no execution besides, it was a firefight with lethals already flying everywhere.

Agreed 100%. It’s happened many a time someone gets caught in the crossfire of one of my firefights and were healed afterwards because they were keeping out of it, and thus are not misconstrued as aiding and abetting their colleagues or friends. But as soon as you start fighting also, especially on the captain, especially with lethal guns, then your argument is null and void.

I really don’t get why the captain of all people would be banned for this rather than the botanist or curator.

16

This seems IC on the captain and the curator’s side. The botanist, on the side of the curator, escalated the situation to lethals after their buddy was stunned. After that, the captain had enough of a reason to believe that they were working together. It all goes downhill from this point on, the curator doesn’t try to clear it up (?) with security before the next fight starts and he also retaliates with lethals of his own. From what I can see, this was all caused by the botanist escalating the situation, not the captain.

Also, distributing guns is a pretty good reason to execute someone.

17

You can’t just appeal your ban and do admin report in one thread…

18

They’re related because the admin report is based on the conduct of the admin in this particular instance. I will make a separate thread for an admin report then.

19

After input, I’m lifting the ban.