Ulrichenstein banned by Aeder1

CKEY: Ulrichenstein

Admin’s CKEY: Aeder

Is this for both servers or just one? If so, which one: Both

Which server did the ban happen on?: MRP

Ban Type: Permanent

Ban Length: Permanent

Ban Date (MM/DD/YYYY): 09/11/2020

Round ID: 21128

Ban Reason: Killed a guy then lied on ticket

Appeal Reason: Both false accusations by Aeder1

**Additional Information: I kill a watcher spawner on lavaland. I drag the chest to the rocks nearby so I don’t fall into a pit. The guy steals my content from my chest and begins running off, so I chase him and begin shooting him with the gun I have. I never grabbed him or threw him in the fire. I was going to take him to the medical area on mining right after I got my stuff back from the backpack. I had a witness, which was the other miner that started the round with us, and they stood next to me and witnessed the guy run into the lava on his own after I stopped shooting him, in order to prevent me from getting the contents inside the backpack.

Aeder1 begins messaging and asking me why I killed the guy, which I didn’t. After I explain only half the story, Aeder1 permanently bans me, not to mention I somehow disconnect right after in such a way that it lags my outside game internet as well. I’m not sure if Aeder1 is using a drop hack, but that is a real thing and it seemed like it. Aeder1 then ignored me while I tried to reach out to them about it, of which he never let me finish my story and clearly didn’t check the logs.**

1 Like

Whole ticket.

Summary

Line 2241: [2020-09-11 07:15:55.026] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Aeder1/(Acco Bifasciata)->Ulrichenstein/(Marcus Pollio): Why did you kill that guy?
Line 2261: [2020-09-11 07:16:05.599] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Ulrichenstein/(Marcus Pollio)->Aeder1/(Acco Bifasciata): I didn't kill him, he ran into the lava on his own.
Line 2280: [2020-09-11 07:16:18.425] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Ulrichenstein/(Marcus Pollio)->Aeder1/(Acco Bifasciata): In fact I wasn't even attacking him at the time he decided to do so
Line 2314: [2020-09-11 07:16:36.768] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Ulrichenstein/(Marcus Pollio)->Aeder1/(Acco Bifasciata): If you go through the logs, you'll see an event where I killed a thing that spawns a necropolis chest
Line 2322: [2020-09-11 07:16:41.228] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Aeder1/(Acco Bifasciata)->Ulrichenstein/(Marcus Pollio): Two lies in quick succession Ok.
Line 2395: [2020-09-11 07:17:02.231] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Ulrichenstein/(Marcus Pollio)->Aeder1/(Acco Bifasciata): Go through the logs and look for a point where I'm killing the thing with the necropolis chest
Line 2438: [2020-09-11 07:17:28.326] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Ulrichenstein/(Marcus Pollio)->Aeder1/(Acco Bifasciata): So the guy runs by and opens the chest, steals the stuff, and runs away to the base because I start shooting at them after they steal my loot
Line 2444: [2020-09-11 07:17:29.465] ADMINPRIVATE: Aeder1/(Acco Bifasciata) has created a global permanent server ban for Ulrichenstein. Reason: Killed a guy then lied about doing it in ticket. Explain https://forums.beestation13.com/c/ban-appeals/10 when you change your mind

Killing the guy.

Summary

Line 1496: [2020-09-11 07:12:05.669] ATTACK: Jockeybane/(Sean Nikoh) has injected Jockeybane/(Sean Nikoh) with the survival medipen (Salbutamol, Leporazine, Tricordrazine, Epinephrine, Lavaland Extract and Omnizine) (NEWHP: 79.4) (Mining Station Starboard Wing (61, 32, 5))
Line 1559: [2020-09-11 07:12:36.146] ATTACK: Ulrichenstein/(Marcus Pollio) has shot Jockeybane/(Sean Nikoh) with the kinetic force (NEWHP: 80) (Lavaland Wastes (130, 38, 5))

Line 1559: [2020-09-11 07:12:36.146] ATTACK: Ulrichenstein/(Marcus Pollio) has shot Jockeybane/(Sean Nikoh) with the kinetic force (NEWHP: 80) (Lavaland Wastes (130, 38, 5))
Line 1586: [2020-09-11 07:12:51.843] ATTACK: Ulrichenstein/(Marcus Pollio) has shot Jockeybane/(Sean Nikoh) with the kinetic force (NEWHP: 69.5) (Mining Station EVA (69, 37, 5))
Line 1601: [2020-09-11 07:12:55.395] ATTACK: Ulrichenstein/(Marcus Pollio) has shot Jockeybane/(Sean Nikoh) with the kinetic force (NEWHP: 52.5) (Mining Station EVA (68, 38, 5))
Line 1607: [2020-09-11 07:12:56.401] ATTACK: Ulrichenstein/(Marcus Pollio) has attacked [reinforced window] with the proto-kinetic accelerator (Mining Station EVA (69, 37, 5))
Line 1612: [2020-09-11 07:12:57.201] ATTACK: Ulrichenstein/(Marcus Pollio) has shot Jockeybane/(Sean Nikoh) with the kinetic force (NEWHP: 33) (Mining Station EVA (70, 37, 5))
Line 1615: [2020-09-11 07:12:58.960] ATTACK: Ulrichenstein/(Marcus Pollio) has shot Jockeybane/(Sean Nikoh) with the kinetic force (NEWHP: 14.5) (Lavaland Wastes (71, 37, 5))
Line 1623: [2020-09-11 07:13:01.958] ATTACK: Ulrichenstein/(Marcus Pollio) has shot Jockeybane/(Sean Nikoh) with the kinetic force (NEWHP: -4) (Lavaland Wastes (73, 44, 5))
Line 1632: [2020-09-11 07:13:05.341] ATTACK: Ulrichenstein/(Marcus Pollio) has grabbed Jockeybane/(Sean Nikoh) passive grab (NEWHP: 0) (Lavaland Wastes (74, 44, 5))

No logs of anyone picking anything up or grabbing anything.
He didn’t shoot back or attack you at all.
If I was shot to -4hp for my gear I’d probably lava myself too.
No say logs from either side either.

This isn’t going to be a perma at all.

If you clearly shoot a guy to death then claim you didn’t kill him with a low amount of hours the go to generally is to assume its outright grief, especially when supported by the logs.

Ban has been dropped to one day.

@Aeder You realize I didn’t kill the guy even with the logs right? I did plan to bring them to 0 health, but they STOLE an item from me and so they lava’d themselves to destroy it. Bringing someone to 0 health doesn’t kill them. Throwing yourself in lava does. You are twisting the truth to suit your own point of view. How the hell did the guy manage to even get up an run if he was at negative 4 health anyway.

If you bothered to ask the other miner what they saw, they would have told you they saw a guy that was still able to stand and walk, walk right into the lava. This is not technically me killing them, not to mention if they did fall into crit, I would have healed them. I can’t heal them when they’re on fire.

EDIT: They had no reason in stealing said item from my necropolis chest

Theft

Common, easily replaced items can be stolen from another player without escalation to self antagonising behaviour and are an IC issue.
Uncommon items that can be quickly replaced should not be escalated to OOC, but if it is a direct inconvenience or they have no purpose to steal said item, it may be treated as self antag.
Rare or unique items such as the Wardens krav maga gloves, compact combat shotgun, or traitor objectives, are always self antagonising when stolen from someone or for no reason, unless there is an immediate purpose or need to steal said item. If the player cannot provide a valid reason, it is self antagonising behaviour.

Which is why it looks like you have dragged them into lava.

Negates your point on the rules. If they did take miner items as a miner, they have a use for them. If their intention was to steal them, however the ticket was opened with:

Line 2053: [2020-09-11 07:13:56.286] ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #3: Jockeybane/(Sean Nikoh): Attacked and killed by Marcus Pollio over a cosmetic item I didn't know was his, without any verbal warning

What was the item that you gunned them down for?

https://wiki.beestation13.com/view/Escalation_Policy Is more relevant here.

Escalation Steps

  1. Completely non-harmful and unarmed actions such as shoving into a wall or table
  2. Unarmed but harmful actions such as punching and kicking, or armed but non-harmful actions such as using a disabler or stun baton.
  3. Armed combat - using any item as a weapon to cause harm to someone
  4. Crit - you are responsible for seeing that your victim receives medical treatment.
  5. Kill - If you properly escalate to this step, no medical attention is required.

Lavaland escalation Means you can skip any conflict in which you are not the aggressor immediately to step 5. Still generally bad taste to immediately kill someone that shoved you once, and you may be told it’s excessive if you’re found to be baiting people so you can kill them.

Taking an item off the floor does not make them the aggressor.

The implication of “drophack” ?
And yes I’m not going to discuss bans on the discord or in the PM and friend request you sent me.

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So yeah outright gunning him down without even trying a
“Hey that’s my stuff give it back”
would be quite wrong.

did you actually think lavaland escalation applies when your just generaly on lavaland?

positive 100 hp - normal state
negative amount of hp - normal/severe bruising
more than 99 negative hp - softcrit
more than 199 negative hp - hardcrit
more than 220~ negative hp - death

On the other hand the miner didn’t ask for the item and just stole it. It’s not written anywhere but it’s pretty obvious that if you kill megafauna boss or just tendril the lost should be yours.
Also to throw you need to grab someone twice, not once.
If what Ulrichenstein is saying is true this looks like banbaiting situation.

Banbaiting is against the rules too, isn’t it?

1 Like

Looking at the logs, Aeder did not wait to hear the full story, he banned the dude as soon as he said that he shot at the guy. He didnt admit to killing him, and the logs support that he did not shoot him to death. the logs also imply that the dude who died was actually healing out of softcrit. His HP goes from -4 in the last attack on him to 0 when he is grabbed. It is likely that his HP ticked up just enough that he was able to stand again. The person banned did NOT kill the person, and they couldn’t have dragged them into the lava once they had come out of crit. They did not aggressively grab the person either, so they could not have thrown the person into the lava. On top of that, why would they put the person with the stolen gear in the lava without taking the item back? The person who made the report was probably banbaiting and just generally being an asshole.

The person who made the report also is technically self antagging too, by stealing the tendril gear, as they are mostly unique items. Off the top of my head, I cant think of any purely cosmetic loot. There is bad loot, like water bottles or cursed hearts, but no wearable items that do absolutely nothing. The person who made the report saying they were killed for a “cosmetic item” would be lying.

He should’ve just typed out “hey that’s mine c’mon dude i fought so hard for that give it back” while the other miner ran off-screen, that’s a reasonable expectation for when someone steals the highly-valuable item you risked your life for.

Pretty unbased ban

2 Likes

If he “dragged the dude into lava” then why was he himself not burned?

2 Likes

also, several of the items obtainable on lavaland are impossible to drop. if the dude had grabbed a god eye, or a dark blessing, you would have to basically chop off his arm to get the loot back. We still dont even know what the loot was, but if had been either of those items, its gone. He wouldnt be getting it back, even if he asked. But given the explained situation, its doubtful that the person was going to give it back under any circumstance.

pretty sure you can start dragging a guy and then click on a tile with an empty hand to move them there.

1 Like