Branching off and continuing from a discussion on the “Sleeper could use a nerf” topic when the idea of possible additional round removal was brought up.
In the time that I played mostly ghost role, at this point I think around exactly a year ago now…
I pointed out my grievances with the system as someone who generally makes an effort to be either a neutral or positive experience for others. There’s already enough death and chaos in this game, I didn’t want to add to it.
Over this last year, not only were things not improved… but in my eyes actively worsened by the code and by the mindsets of crew.
To me, it feel like Ghost roles are not allowed to have a positive (even negligible) influence on the round without the risk of them becoming full on antag against their will.
They are either zero interaction or actively hostile towards the station.
Allow me to explain each I have a problem with:
First of all: Drone
Wont go too much into it as I already have in length. Yes, I apologise that I could not do anything myself. I am indeed, inept at coding.
Second: Super-cruise
Removal of Charlie station as a stand alone entity and the removal of the (blessed spawn) lone Com Agent
In its place was added an actual antag spawn mechanic, capable of in theory round removing up to three others and going to the station if their goal was to cause more trouble.
Likely led to metagaming in regards to avoidance of Assassination or VIP recovery missions if averse to the OOC known risks of potentially throwing your round away.
“Charlie station” was thrown back in but required the exploration team to conditionally spawn it while a ghost willing to even take the role was watching. Interaction plummeted and what WAS there typically ended up as confrontational or outright antagonistic from reports of such.
Theorised scenarios include:
- active grief of the exploration team
- A waste of 10 min as the team goal was Nuclear, likely leads to stand off or;
- Full respawn as a random Human who is taken to the station
- Business as usual for Charlie station
1 near zero interaction and 1 remote and minor antagonism
Replaced by 1 Neutral interaction / Minor antagonistic and 1 Major antagonistic
Third: pAI
Alot of requests were made of pAI to expand their ability to perform and assist Antagonists.
With no ability to choose who your owner will be, this makes playing pAI a massive gamble if you are not interested in being antagonistic. Unlike every other role. You have the ability to disable it in configs or selectively decline midrounds.
A few features were added to pAI from upstream which was then used as an attempt to add severe drawbacks and easier traitor conversion, which thankfully was blocked.
pAI to me is a comfort role, where all you do is sit in someone’s pocket and talk to them, be it just general chatter to brighten their day or knowledge and assistance with tasks.
The outcry of “I tried to kill X but their pocket alarm started blaring. Please change this” is a pretty pathetic excuse… If you studied your target for more than 5 seconds you would probably have noticed that they were talking to something and thus… prepare countermeasures for such
-2 TC funny flashlight or EMP kits
-Cult EMP
-Iron/Uranium mix
Hell… even just manipulation of your target… yknow… roleplay?
"OMG is that a pAI? If always wanted to get one of them. Is it okay if I hold it for a sec?"
Assuming yes: Wipe pAI. Attack target before they know what’s up assuming ready.
Assuming no: Relent and carry on, revert to plan A. EMP before you attack outright.
pAI stun is extremely long if you include the mute. Plenty of time to strip, search and wipe before it can alert.
pAI are a strangely abusable role… and I don’t mean playing as one.
Your preferences hold zero regard in the arrangement. Anyone can wilfully disregard you and download anyway with no chance to rebuke.
And if allowed (and as stated, was planned to make it easier). You can easily be stolen and converted. Making it fully blind to player willingness.
Along with the vague nature of what pAI are allowed to do if they run into a bad master. There’s only an entry on what to do with a bad pAI. Nothing inverse… Am I allowed to wipe if master is unsatisfactory or abusive or do I have to follow my laws under duress and stay unless it gets to the point where only an Ahelp is the way out. May require fleshing out. another time tho.
Four: Just being a ghost
A dull experience where a group of people with nothing better to do than lament over what did, what is or even what isn’t happening on station. Its a breeding ground for a toxic mindset and one that hasn’t been addressed. This will only get worse if rounds get longer or if round removal becomes easier
with so little to do during rounds other than complain or leave there is a massive reliance on RNG for a ghost role to suit your fancy:
5 on lavaland (3 Neutral, 1 Minor antag, 1 Major Semi isolated antag (Grouping syndie as one))
2 in space (1 Minor antag, 1 Major antag)
16 Station side. mostly midround (2 Neutral, 2 Minor, 4 Major, 6 Round ending, 1 variable between Major/R.E, 1 Positive leaning and 2 wildcards (its xenobio and Borg)
NONE of these are guaranteed and an overwhelming majority are actively antagonistic. Meaning if that isn’t your thing. then things are even worse.
Unless you want players to just leave after being round ended without resorting to waiting for a chance to do it to someone else, I urge people to address this.
- There is no guaranteed activity in which at least a minor interaction with the crew/station is viable.
- Nor is there any (ghost) role that is actively beneficial to the station with no strings attached.
These would be addressed by drone.
- There is no self contained area where in ghosts can mingle or do anything they wish with the mechanics of the server as a form of learning or entertainment.
This would be addressed by some form of ghost cafe.
Conclusion. (and TLDR)
If you want people to not be afraid of or aversed to Round removal. Then I believe these two additions (Drones/Ghost Cafe) at a very minimum would provide some incentive to let go of that mindset.
If you know that if you die, that you likely wont be able to play for upwards of Two hours. Then yeah… No shit are people going to be unwilling to give up their round to an Antagonist.
Give people an actual reason to stick around or continue what they were doing in a secluded mini-station.
This may also clean up d-chat a little. there always will be salt… but I hope there wont be as much stewing and decent into a cesspit where people wait for ghost roles to spite or incessantly complain.
I also do not agree with the notion that every station side ghost role should be detrimental to the station in some way, even by outside factors like subversion or conversion. You are not allowed to just be nice without the threat of such hanging above your head at all times.
And that’s kind of a shame…
This… Got a bit rambly there but I think that’s everything I wanted to Address.
Thanks for reading this mess :^)
And I hope that I’m not the only one who sees these as issues with solutions.
