Is this for both servers or just one? If so, which one:
Sage
Ban Type:
Security ban
Ban Length:
7 days
Ban Date (MM/DD/YYYY):
10/23/2020
Round ID: 22958
Ban Reason:
The ban reason is: Cremated someone over a suspicion of being a ling.
Appeal Reason:
I was the HoS. One of my officers murdered the CMO in cold blood for absolutely no reason TWICE IN A ROW. The officer was acting bloodthirsty for pretty much the entire round before this (asking for lethals and SWAT gear with close to no reason) so after my officers had killed him after the second time he killed a head of staff I decided to cremate him, assuming that he was a ling or at the very least a traitor in sec. I had previously planned on permaing him because he was a security officer and likely wasn’t a traitor or a ling but after the second time I had decided he should die.
After cremating him, Archanial bwoink’d me asking why I cremated him, to which I responded he had apparently self-antagged by murdering the CMO twice for no reason. Archanial proceeded to immediately roleban me and explained that I shouldn’t have “assumed he was a ling”. I ahelped several times trying to find an explanation. When I got a response, Archanial said that I was not justified because I “assumed he was a ling” and I should have gotten approval before cremating.
While I understand that I was quick to cremate, the ban seems completely ridiculous to me given the context. The officer I cremated self-antagged twice killing a head of staff, for absolutely no reason, twice in a round where we had already suspected that there were lings. Additionally I find a 7-day full headban a ridiculous punishment for this.
Additional Information:
According to deadchat and comms, the guy who I cremated was brought back by Archanial as a secborg and proceeded to complain that AI wasn’t subverted over binary and harmbaton people while under Crewsimov laws. It is ridiculous to me that an admin would not only not ban but revive a sec officer who killed a head of staff twice, while rolebanning the person who killed him.
Gonna be real, if you murder a head of staff twice and you’re anything other than an antagonist this should be the outcome for being such an incredible dipshit
Lot of shitsec behaviour from the officer to begin with, literally his only reason for killing the CMO was because he said he was getting in the way of an arrest.
Then I assume when asked by HoS, as HoS said, they said nothing in response to killing them.
Death was the only solution for the officer who committed two separate cases of capital crimes, especially against a head.
HoS can give execution authorization as shown by the Space Law wiki page, and since they did it themself, then they should have been allowed to cremate for the capital crime.
I see no reason why he shouldn’t be cremated, ling or not, because he committed capital crimes
Just because he can never be an antag as sec, doesn’t mean he’s immune to space law, the same goes for the heads.
P.S. I thought I already explained to you in deadchat the moment you died, that they came back as a posibrain, as in made by roboticists. I have no idea how you read that as spawned in a posibrain by admin, which is not possible unless they made a posibrain and made sure they somehow got it
I’m waiting for @Archanial to give their side, but if the story checks out I’m inclined to agree with the banned player as well by this point in the round.
It sounds like the sec player in question should have been banned for self-antag.
I’d like to chime in and point out that although he has been already permabanned from mrp for that, right after coming back as borg chetmasterson screamed in common “BWOINK”, “ADMIN BANNED OOC”, and closer to the end of the shift made an announcement “im gonna post this on r/ss13 and get many upvotes from furry community”. That’s all in addition to allegedly running around harmbattoning crew on crewsimov. Now this is not just to say that “victim was bad himself”, but that the victim was apparent shitter all throughout the round, both while being a security officer, and even after having his ahelp satisfied, as a silicon.
So while executing without cap’s permission is not nice (even though he self-antagged by killing head twice and showed zero remorse for what he did in the first, peaceful dialog with him, I recommend checking chat logs if you are not lazy) he was, at least in my - Warden’s - eyes executed in part to remove a very shitty player from the round.
My bad. I pretty much skimmed through deadchat and saw he came back, so I thought you had done that. Totally a mistake on my part. However I still think he should have been banned immediately for self-antag.
The player in question was self antaging and got banned from MRP later.
But him killing CMO does not mean you can assume he is a ling and “decide he should die”. Why didn’t you ahelp him?
This is half truth, as you very clearly said in ahelp that he was a ling. Heres full ticket with you:
[2020-10-24 01:40:11.374] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Archanial/(Lennox Fryer)->TapBacc/(Finn Faust): Why did you just cremate him?
[2020-10-24 01:40:32.911] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: TapBacc/(Finn Faust)->Archanial/(Lennox Fryer): he killed the CMO twice for no reason. i thought he was 100% a ling with assassinate on cmo
[2020-10-24 01:41:58.965] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Archanial/(Lennox Fryer)->TapBacc/(Finn Faust): Next time get caps auth and confirm he was a ling
and I closed the ticket banning you. (just so you know he wasn’t a ling, but that does not matter)
And this is wrong. As I already said the player in question got banned in this exact round.
As HoS you are held to a higher standard than security officer and this is not LRP. I’m not inclined to accept this appeal, but I can see your reasoning and I am willing to reduce the ban to 3 days.
I had assumed that the CMO would have ahelped. And again I thought he was probably not a ling but just plain shitsec after the first murder, but after the second time I thought there would be no reason he would kill the CMO barring self-antag or being a ling. And again, as I had assumed the CMO had ahelped and if there was no punishment I deduced that he was antag. Also, as I remember he had one arm cut off in the second fight with CMO so I couldn’t cuff him. I specifically remember being worried and asking the det to help me cremate in case he revived. I really didn’t want to sit around and wait on an ahelp next to a guy who, again, had killed the cmo twice and could revive at any moment.
Again, I understand the specific rulings and the motivation behind my ban, however in my opinion, given the context I was completely justified.
The reason for the ban is for “bad rp, violating space law and silicon law”, not self antag head of staff murder, which implies to me that there was a justification for his actions that I wasn’t aware of. If I didn’t specify before, I tried to figure out why he killed CMO to which he gave very little response, only saying that the CMO “interfered with an arrest”. He then proceeded to shittalk me and the CMO instead of actually defending himself. From my point of view he had absolutely no justification in killing CMO either time. If he did I would very much like to know.
TL;DR:
Given the context of the situation (couldn’t cuff, he only had one arm) and the fact that he had killed CMO twice without justification or remorse I believe I had complete justification in cremating him, plus, as Ruko said above, he should have been banned for self antag after the first CMO murder.
To make it clear, he was banned not immediately as a result of his encounter with CMO, bit 34 minutes later after I ahelped him whining about unjust ban.
Now whats even more irrelevant, just a day before that I, as clown, was permabrigged for blast honking at brig doors once (+3 more times in various places around the station without causing as much as inconvenience). After I attempted escape, I was executed as non antag. The HoS got away with a warning not to execute over such light things. I was satisfied with that resolution, and it was not Archanial, but the contrast of ruling such different punishments for different HoSes is very unjust.
i thought he was 100% a ling with assassinate on cmo
I believe second time was in self defence since he got cuffed by CMO who was doing some forced surgeries on him. Still this does not make you able to execute him without authorization.
This is not relevant to this topic. It’s about you cremating misbehaving security officer not him getting banned.
okay and? Don’t you have like anesthetics or just chain stuns?
And still this is appeal about you getting banned, not a player report against him. You cremated the guy on assumption of him being a ling and got banned.
I have no idea about which ahelp you are talking about.
It took longer than usual to resolve the CMO situation because there was a griefer running on lrp, but during this time the dude managed to get himself a perma from mrp.
The only issue I see is that authorization for execution wasn’t acquired. An absolute shitter was executed for being an absolute shitter - if the round was lings, it makes some sense to think they could have been a ling and a test should have been done to confirm it, but even if they weren’t a ling they were guilty of (at least) two counts of capital crime from @Tapbacc’s point of view alone and still should have been executed in the long run.
I think this ban should be lifted and replaced with a warning given the player’s record, the arguments given and the conditions of the round and shitter involved. An incorrect assumption was made and acted on, but not without some level of sound reasoning behind it.
Additionally, who was the shitter in question banned? If they were guilty of this much self antag, the ban shouldn’t be for MRP only - it should be global. Running around killing people, harming people against silicon laws and such is not an MRP-exclusive violation.
Edit: After further discussion with Archanial, I’m pulling the logs for myself to see what happened. Final opinion pending
Edit again: Got logs, opinion remains the same. Unban he, or at least reduce it substantially. This deserved a warning in my opinion, and I’m upgrading Chet’s ban to global after seeing the extent of his actions.