It’s literally the second sentence of the topic.
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And this is literally the third and fourth. Didn’t expect you to have the Valve syndrome and refuse to count above two.
Anyway. As said. As fun as this is, at least contribute something of value to the original topic before peanut posting ~
Actually. I’ll be nice and make it easier for you.
PROTIP: The main topic is not about any specific incident or hatchets. That was an anecdote. The main topic is about the difference between a tool and a makeshift weapon when it comes to space law.
Hope this clears things up. Would you prefer me to make it a little easier to understand?
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The law isn’t about items. It’s about context. Hatchet is something that everyone has a reason to use, even assistants get them for the public garden or to renovate an office. Even perma prisoners (aka the turbo bastards who kept committing crimes) get hatchets. If someone is just grabbing it to powergame or be a shitter then it crosses the line from “tool” to “makeshift weapon” really quickly. Big tell is that if you ask them why they have it, they start yelling about how they’re allowed to and it’s illegal to take it et cetera.
This also goes for stuff like plasma tanks, chem nades, clown gear (yes this can be inherently dangerous outside a trained clown’s hands) and cargo rifles. If they don’t want sec to take it they should at the bare minimum roleplay an excuse for having it.
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Yeah. Not doing that can create interesting and fun emergent RP scenarios. Love it when that stuff happens.
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They do not. At least I don’t know any map that has them in perma by default.
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But then there are also privacy laws. And not every sec department has a lawyer which will point out the crewman’s right to privacy. Security isn’t entitled to confiscate items “just in case” someone might use them for a nefarious purpose. If there is reasonable doubt, that should go through a lawyer. If there is evidence, that evidence should be processed and potentially, the perpetrator’s case built up from that.
Privacy laws are void when you are already arrested and being searched, as is normal procedure.
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The right to maintain silence is not revoked. At no point someone who is being arrested is obligated to testify, least so against themselves. And certainly not without a trial. You’re having a catch 22 here: I’m allowed to breach privacy laws because I’m arresting, but I’m only able to arrest because I’m breaching privacy laws. But that’s a little bit too complicated for you to understand and we’ll derail again so I’ll leave it at that. If I have to explain what a catch 22 is I’m going to go bald inside five minutes.
The what now. We’re talking about this, https://wiki.beestation13.com/view/Space_Law not America.
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Nowhere in space law is it stated that someone who is being arrested needs to testify against themselves though. But as said, don’t try. It’s too complicated for you and will turn into another two hours off topic debate. Stay simple my man. Babysteps. One thing at a time. For now, try to contribute to the main topic: Difference between a tool and a weapon. Go!
Spessmen privacy is enforced up to Blue Alert. Even then, SOP says you need reasonable cause to perform a random search on Blue Alert. It only becomes void at Red or Delta Alert.
Edit: My bad i read it wrong. Blue Alert is actually: 1. Random searches are permitted, but crew must be given a chance to comply.
Still in good practice you should have reasonable cause.
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You ok there friend? You seem to be confusing real life laws with the game.
If you want to get technical:
Hatchet deals 12 damage melee, ratio of item size to throw force (15) is one of the best in the game in terms of throw damage equation and is actually an optimal item for pneumatic cannon for this purpose. It’s considered a sharp item, just as a syringe, or a broken cardboard fluid container, syringe etc. all of which cut logs equally from game point of view.
A spear deals 18 damage melee two handed, is also a bit better for throwing (throw force 20), is also sharp and can be used to cut logs, is also made from publicly accessible areas. Now the notable difference between these two items is that spear has armour penetration, but you can’t conceal a spear.
Toolbox (regular) has 12 melee damage, but is not sharp.
Ultimately, space law doesn’t consider a hatchet or a knife to be an inherently dangerous weapon as the contraband page is written. You’ll still be liable to be charged with other crimes related to having it, which are too many to list.
This is a catch all for dangerous equipment that is not explicitly listed elsewhere. Primary use is the deciding factor here, not capability. This means that a spear falls here, but not a butchers knife - since the knifes purpose is not to harm but to cut meats in the kitchen.
It still depends on why you were arrested, how you used it etc. But good luck arguing OOC that you are carrying it for anything but combat, nobody will buy that.
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Are you dense? Read SOP.
Here i will provide it for you: Department Standard Operating Procedure: Security - BeeStation Wiki
What Magic said is entirely correct according to Sec SOP.
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HARK! Do you see with thine eyes what I see with mine?! You have finally grasped the concept of intent?! Behold, ye fellow forum dwellers! 'tis possible to get through to this man! My trying was not in vain!
… Ahem. Yes. That’s the first step. Now, I’ll also need you to learn to look at things not only from a stats perspective, but also roleplay and purpose perspective. A spear is designed to be a weapon, while a hatchet is not.
Can you figure this one out, too? Fingers crossed?
@RogueNPS > Be nice. He gets it when he wants, as you see above.
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I will pray for your wellbeing.
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I didnt know Redditors were capable of such a feat of supernatural faith.
BACK ON TOPIC!
Can we please get an admeme to put their opinion here?
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Do you mean this?
- Security must respect the privacy of crew members and no unauthorized searches are allowed. Authorization can be obtained by a warrant which must be stamped by the Head of Security or Captain.
Because that’s a section about searches. If you think it’s about actual real life privacy, you’re in for a surprise. There’s cameras in bathroom on some stations.
There’s nothing, anywhere, in space law or SOP, about testifying against yourself or catch 22 or whatever else you want to pull from US law. This is a game, not real life.
?
No where in SOP or Space Law does it say that Sec can force you to say anything. Nor does it say they cannot.
Is this about your dreamed up scenario in brig where you don’t want to tell security WHY you have a hatchet, ergo they should ignore it and let you keep it despite you already being arrested for another crime?
Let me ask you this, what is your out of character (your, the player) reason for wanting a hatchet?
Again, I told you, it’s too complicated for you. If you REALLY want to understand I can longpost and connect the dots for you, but then you’ll get sidetracked and lost again. (Which you already are).
Basic framework is like such:
- Security needs some sort of proof or evidence of a crime to prosecute.
- You have the right to refuse to tell someone why you’re carrying a tool, since spacelaw doesn’t state otherwise.
- Thus, currently, security may not detain you with a tool unless there’s proof that it is being used maliciously.
- Because space law doesn’t state that you must testify against yourself … Detaining someone because they refuse to tell you why they have it alone is unlawful.
But as said. It’s too complicated for you. So stick to discussing the difference between a weapon and a tool, and if there should (or shouldn’t) be a space law to deal with a specific sutation:
- When someone is detained for carrying a tool.
- When there is reasonable doubt that tool may be used for hostile activity.
No, no, no! Bad Kontaminant! Stay on topic! We’re not talking about any other crime! We’re talking specifically the possession of the tool itself!
This again? Sure. I’ll point you to the answer, one more time!
Back on topic now! ^^