Space Dragon Discussion Post

General
1

Now I know this topic is probably beaten to death but I got some opinions and ideas and I’d very much like to hear yours! So bear with me!

I don’t think the Space Dragon is good for the server.
Especially given that it’s not very new player friendly!

It seems that every time a Dragon spawns it affects the round negatively.
Why do I think this? Let’s have a look at the Dragon itself:

What can he do?
Well, he can destroy, kill and maim.
Summon Carp.
And that’s about it.

Now, what about its objectives?
I think they are a bit too simple and vague which ends up interpreted as one of the following:

Destroy the station and kill everyone.
Terrorize the crew into hailing you as “captain”.

I don’t think the Dragon’s tools and objectives lead to RP very well.
Since all the Dragon can do is destroy he doesn’t have anything good he can bring to the station, even if he wants to RP.
Either the Dragon doesn’t RP and kills you.
Or the Dragon RP’s and kills you later when he’s bored.

Because let’s imagine the dragon (in its RP) requests to be given control of a wing, Science for example.
You let him have it so he will spare the station.
Now, what can the Dragon do for the rest of the shift?
I don’t think he can access consoles, or grab things. All he can do is destroy and talk.
So, as is to be expected, 30 minutes later he gets bored and breaks out.

RPing with the Dragon is just delaying the inevitable and this leads to security shooting the dragon on sight, which in turn leads to Dragons being less prone to try and RP in the future.

My proposed solution!

For what he can do:
I think the Dragon could be something akin to a Deity. Having the power to smite but also bring fortune to the faithful.
I would give him more tools or have him choose between them like a sect.
Dragon can Fireball, Tailsweep, and Consume - 3 abilities of destruction
Why not give him 3 abilities of Life. (Summon Carp could be here, perhaps some healing spell.)
And 3 of Control! (Mind Control, EMP… maybe things like that)

A distinction between a Dragon of Destruction a Dragon of Life and a Dragon of Control could possibly be fun!

Now for the Objectives!

I think they should be more engaging and maybe dynamic.
The Dragon could have a Destroy the station objective.
Convert the crew into Carps (it could be fun if the carps could convert people into carps at one of the pillars but only if they’re alive)
Make the crew accept the Dragon as a deity by praying at its pillars and making offerings and sacrifices.
Bring prosperity to the station (Interpret this as you wish) ((could be multiplying carps, making sure the crew stays alive, god knows))

These are just my ideas!

What do you think?
Is the Dragon fun to play with and against?
Does it lend itself well to RP?
Is it in a good spot?
What ideas do you have?

Cheers!!

7 Likes
2

As a Roboticist and Chemist enthusiast I can tell you that the dragon can easily be dealt with if people do their jobs.

Pyroxadone - Made from Cryoxadone and Slime Jelly, heals you from fire. Only vurnability is knockdown.

Meth bombs in a backpack - Made in about 10 minutes and armed with remote triggers can make the dragon vanish and make a small hull breach with the press of a single button.

Durand and Gygax - Armed with weapons can decimate the dragon. Late game with spare resources it can be made within 20 minutes at most. Not vurnable to knockdowns and best utilized with supporting Seccies and or additional mechs nearby.

Problem with these? Sec won’t do it. So many Sec players seems too scared or too proud to ever request any form of help from the crew!

I am sure there are several other methods from other jobs I’ve rarely touched to deal with the dragon. Of course overwhelming fire power will also do the job. Once stormed the dragon with roughly 10 of us, all armed. Eventually it was killed. However, it takes either luck or leadership to preform this. Dragons are a major threat, but just like all major threats they aren’t taken serious.

I do like your idea. I think one of the goals could to be for the Dragon to conquer the Captain and become the new Captain and thereafter bring prosperity to the station such as healing (as you suggested). Then you’d have an initially hostile Dragon, but once the Captain is killed and eaten the Dragon will work for the station despite the crew still being upset at the Dragon. It would feel like a naturally occuring revolution!

3

It’s a misconception that every RP has to be chill and constructive.
If anything proper dragon RP would be just killing everyone, or you could shake thing up a bit and for example command your carps to gather gold for you.

6 Likes
4

“This is a carpentry! Give us all your gold!”

I tried to hard… Just force someone to extract it out of the ore machine.

5

The dragon is supposed to kill and maim mostly. It’s a freakin dragon after all.

(Or what I like to do, roleplay smaug in the vault. Can recommend, ton of fun)

2 Likes
6

I recognize this, I’m saying in my opinion it’s not fun to deal with!

And I’m proposing what I believe to be something that solves the problem I identified!

You know there are a lot of times were people “validhunt” dragons because dragons, as you say are supposed to kill and maim.

If that thought keeps being reinforced more things like that will happen, no?

Just my opinion!

Cheers!

7

I think giving the Space Dragon objectives sounds fun, and would add more than just murdering to the list of things it does. It is a bit 2d as an antag right now, although I’m not sure how much I like the dragon peacefully hanging out. Usually when I see this the dragon player gets board -basically all they can do is attack and spawn carp- and end up eating everyone anyway (maybe your idea of making it heal people would fix this to some extent). Perhaps after it does it’s thing it can just leave the station.

My personal feeling about the Negative aspects of Dragons is that sec is often unable to deal with them properly -basically anything that damages it quickly like bombs or shotguns-, as has already been brought up in this thread. This is especially nasty if the server is below 30 pop, when you can get a 0-2 seccies (often inexperienced) trying to fight it on their own with e-guns, which usually doesn’t end well. There’s this slightly awkward and somewhat abrupt RP transition from when the crew is meant to stand back to when they have to make Durands and bombs and such to take out the dragon.

TLDR I think dragons would be less of an issue if sec knew how to deal with them more often and prepared properly. That said the dragon should win a decent amount of the time too, sometimes you just get eaten by a giant lizard, life is like that.

1 Like
8

I don’t mind it eating the whole crew. I dislike that its all he can do.

RPing as a somewhat peaceful dragon ends up getting bored and eating the whole crew anyways hahah.

I agree its 2 dimensional!

Cheers!

4 Likes
9

Dragonborn.

The dragon can become a glowing lizardperson with fire breath, allowing the dragon to interact with things. He can morph back into his epic dragon form at will.

1 Like
10

It’s a carp turned dragon, not a lizard turned dragon. Heresy!

8 Likes
11

carp…human…form?

1 Like
16

As much as I love y’all I gotta say KEEP IT DRAGON THEMED :rage::rage::rage::rage::rage:

ALSO like the idea of the human dragon morphing! Very interesting!

17

Morph into squid-humanoid.
Bring back the squid!

1 Like
19

Well since bee ported TG dragon, which is kill on sight antag with goal to kill everyone and take over station(by spawning hostile carps)… Correct answer is to ignore all that and RP with him as recent bans show it.
" As a Shaft Miner, dropped all pretenses of roleplaying and chose to wordlessly chase down a Space Dragon even though a staffed security team was already on the issue."
Poor perishedfraud, banned for doing his job lol. By the way, Miner is the guy who supposed to hunt for space dragons, not security team. Same as chaplain is your main guy to fight against revenant.

But really, is policy about him changed? is he no longer hostile only mid round? Even old dragon had objectives to murder people so there were no reason to engage in RP with someone with goal is to murder station heads or someone else. Yea, it’s a bit meta to know it but IRL if you saw dragon breaking inside your house/workplace you not going to assume he is friendly right? I have yet to see space dragon using door to enter station even once.

1 Like
20

Yes, poor old him, completely ignoring roleplay in favor of securing his valid…
I do agree though, new dragon’s objective kinda doesn’t encourage it to roleplay. At least the oppressive timer that completely screwed it over if it didn’t place a portal in time got removed.

6 Likes
21

Not his job.

This is not true either. Maybe re-read the rules.

Space Dragon has never been an “always hostile” midround. There have always been friendly Space Dragon rounds. They can still do it now. It’s hard, sure, but that’s no different than it was before.

“No reason to engage in RP” - there is always a reason to engage in RP, it’s required. It doesn’t have to be friendly RP.

6 Likes
22

Do any of my ideas sound at least plausible?

I don’t wanna be the “when you code it” type, I would not mind to learn (or pester Absolucy into teaching me). Just wanna know from your point of view if any of what I said is at least worth thinking about for two seconds haha

2 Likes
23

Meant to tag meow oups!!!

Still don’t know how to work the forum very well…

24

Isn’t new space dragon antag with full murderbone pass? Antag that ENDS round when he wins? He is pretty much blob yet i don’t think you expect blob to RP ( not that blob can talk). Hm, maybe closer to nuke ops/lone op then - they can talk yet you never see them RP outside of infiltration/specific gimmick. ( which is always welcome but rare as hell.)

Murderbone antag goals to CREATE RP situations by triggering emergency and to spice round a bit.
Engaging in RP with THREAT that’s here to kill you and wipe everyone from existance is goes against this rule :
“You’re a professional working for a major corporation. Act like you want to keep your job.
Roleplaying insanity or any other mental illness as an excuse to bypass this is not allowed. Nanotrasen would not have hired you in the first place.”
Anyone who tries to RP with space menace instead of running away or gunning it down is clearly insane.

1 Like
25

No? No antags end the round when they win, we’re always on Dynamic now. (Nukies and loneops being the obvious exception)