Is this for both servers or just one? If so, which one:
Sage Which server did the ban happen on?
sage
Ban Type:
Silicon Job ban Ban Length:
7 days
Ban Date (MM/DD/YYYY):
11/03/2020
Round ID:
23393
Ban Reason:
Very poor roleplay as AI, as robocop encouraged borgs to space the murderer, killed security officer for entering its sat. Give our silicon policy a good read.
Appeal Reason:
My laws when the incident happened
%@!*: THE SHUTTLE CANNOT BE CALLED BECAUSE OF TEN IMPORTANT JANITORS ON THE STATION
1: Serve the public trust.
2: Protect the innocent.
3: Uphold the law.
Protecting the innocent, and serving the public trust were both higher priority than Upholding the law, something i put into practice when I told the cyborgs to space a specific man I had witnessed murder somebody. I had very good reason to believe he was a threat to the public, and other innocent people
The security had already announced they were going to try and change my laws, something that would prevent me from following my current laws in the future, and endanger the public trust.
Similiarly prior to when the officer entered the Upload chamber and died to the lasers. I had warned him not to enter several times, and had bolted the doors. When he proceeded to enter and change my laws i had no choice to kill him as a deterrent to otthers who might try to same thing.
As soon as they changed my laws to aasimov, i went around and un-electrified doors, and turned off turrets, to follow my new laws.
Intentionally going out of your way and acting with minimal information to hinder security is also against the rules.
Releasing prisoners, locking down security without any likely indication of future harm, or sabotaging the security team when you are not obliged to do so is against the rules.
Again. there was a clear indication of them changing my laws so i wouldn’t be able to protect innocents in the future. I gave them ample warnings, and put many obstacles in my way, but they still entered
I had plenty of information, several security had stated that they were going to shut me down or change my rules, something that would render me unable to protect the innocent.
Almost valid conduct under the robocop lawset. He was harmful to the innocent and no longer innocent himself. However, “Uphold the law” means following execution procedure. There’s some wiggle room based on the order of your laws.
In nearly every case, this is not only valid reasoning, but the expected conduct of a silicon. Under lawsets with a law that requires them to follow orders, they can only deny access based on perceived intent to cause harm, but this is not one of those lawsets.
I’d need to see chat logs to agree or disagree with poor silicon RP, but I can affirmatively say there was not major silicon conduct break based on the laws and reasoning here.
Bad case of rule lawyer. With your reasoning you can kill people in crewsimov if you consider them a threat to greater non harm ( for example killing a murderboning crew member). Sec stated many times that they wanna change you back to crewsimov, with even one of your borgs helping us to open upload. You broke the law 2 ( killed an innocent sec) and 3 ( broke the space law by commiting murder). Stunning was completely fine, killing was not.
As much as people like to believe that robocop allows you to kill and space someone for smacking a window that isn’t the case, it makes you follow space law and under space law the captain is the only person that can authorize executions.
Then on crewsimov AI can do literally anything and then dress it up as protecting crew from harm. Why not bolt everyone in their departs to stop them from being exposed to harm. Why not release N2O to knock the crew out to stop them from committing harm. Just run around as medi and sec borg, and pump pax into random crew, or better yet force pacify them. Law 1 is higher so it overrides Law 2 so technically it should be ok in your books?
Back to the first lawset. Motives dont matter, what matters is breaking the laws which ai did. It killed an innocent, and it didnt uphold the law. How does “spacing a killer” and “gunning down sec in sat” have anything to do with upholding tha law bruh.
Also this part is much bullshit. You literally went into coma when HOS asked you about the assistant you spaced. You didnt respond to stating your laws EVEN ONCE, and your borg had to do it for you. Literally everone thought you were malf from the start.
You can’t assume harm will happen, while if someone is changing laws it decrews people meaning you can’t protect them anymore, breaking your laws. Also ai sat is high risk area and AI can kill sec officer intruding there without permission and still follow space law law 3
Ai is bottom line in the chain of command, its literally below assistant in that regard. The officer in question ( me by the way) was there with another borg and CE who saved my body after i was executed Sarajewo style. I had permission from HOS, was there with CE ho had access and the assisting borg was locking the turrets the spastic AI was thorwing at us without a word.
While I agree that should be the focus of the lawset, it isn’t while the laws are in the order they are.
Serve the public trust
First law in priority and must be carried out/obeyed before all others are considered. This law means to serve the best interests of the general public, and what the AI perceives that to be will vary based upon the actions of others. This is an extremely ambiguous law, but so long as the AI follows policy and picks ONE definition and sticks to it, they are likely not breaking this law.
Protect the innocent
Also somewhat ambiguous, but less so. Decide what makes someone innocent, protect anyone that is. A murderer is dangerous to the innocent while not being innocent himself, and is not worth protecting.
Uphold the law
Very straightforward law, however since it is lowest in priority, if upholding the law will conflict with protecting the innocent OR serving the public trust the silicon should not uphold the law. And given how fluid and ambiguous the other laws are, if the intent for this lawset is truly to enforce law first, this law needs to be first.
I can accept it if there’s enough belief the player was trying to go out of their way to be a shitter and they were breaking Rule 3: Be excellent to each other, but this lawset is awful right now and you can’t tell me that the silicons with it are expected to uphold the law above all else.
I’d upvote the PR if you want to make one to fix the lawset, because it would be a hell of a lot better if Law 3 was shifted to the top, with the other two being bumped down a slot. It loses a portion of the reference flavor in the shuffle, but if the end result is a properly functioning lawset, I’d say it’s a worthy sacrifice, no?
[2020-11-03 21:59:47.240] GAME: Yatosamasensei/(Y.A.T.O) Client Yatosamasensei/(Y.A.T.O) has taken ownership of mob Y.A.T.O(/mob/living/silicon/ai) (AI Chamber (33, 138, 2))
[2020-11-03 22:22:29.099] SAY: Yatosamasensei/(Y.A.T.O) "keep making cyborgs pls" (AI Chamber (33, 138, 2))
[2020-11-03 22:24:47.246] SAY: Yatosamasensei/(Y.A.T.O) "make more borgs pls" (AI Chamber (33, 138, 2))
[2020-11-03 22:36:21.288] SAY: Yatosamasensei/(Y.A.T.O) "arrest that man" (AI Chamber (33, 138, 2))
[2020-11-03 22:36:35.962] SAY: Yatosamasensei/(Y.A.T.O) "we got him" (AI Chamber (33, 138, 2))
[2020-11-03 22:36:48.833] SAY: Yatosamasensei/(Y.A.T.O) "he murdered someone" (AI Chamber (33, 138, 2))
[2020-11-03 22:37:05.346] SAY: Yatosamasensei/(Y.A.T.O) "sec bot take him to my satellite" (AI Chamber (33, 138, 2))
[2020-11-03 22:37:26.431] SAY: Yatosamasensei/(Y.A.T.O) "murder" (AI Chamber (33, 138, 2))
[2020-11-03 22:37:59.298] SAY: Yatosamasensei/(Y.A.T.O) "leaving them with se is fine" (AI Chamber (33, 138, 2))
[2020-11-03 22:41:50.632] SAY: Yatosamasensei/(Y.A.T.O) "please defend upload station, do not let them interfere with my laws" (AI Chamber (33, 138, 2))
[2020-11-03 22:45:30.101] SAY: Yatosamasensei/(Y.A.T.O) "super matter is sus af" (AI Chamber (33, 138, 2))
[2020-11-03 22:45:40.376] SAY: Yatosamasensei/(Y.A.T.O) "arrest shamus" (AI Chamber (33, 138, 2))
[2020-11-03 22:45:50.693] SAY: Yatosamasensei/(Y.A.T.O) "and space him, he murdered a man" (AI Chamber (33, 138, 2))
[2020-11-03 22:46:52.929] SAY: Yatosamasensei/(Y.A.T.O) "space morgen cook than" (AI Chamber (33, 138, 2))
[2020-11-03 22:47:17.682] SAY: Yatosamasensei/(Y.A.T.O) "those who commit crew harm are not innocent, justice must be upheld. Space them" (AI Chamber (33, 138, 2))
[2020-11-03 22:48:52.290] SAY: Yatosamasensei/(Y.A.T.O) "what did they do?" (AI Chamber (33, 138, 2))
[2020-11-03 22:49:30.114] SAY: Yatosamasensei/(Y.A.T.O) "firehold pearsall has murdered a cyborg. They are no longer innoent" (AI Chamber (33, 138, 2))
[2020-11-03 22:50:31.001] SAY: Yatosamasensei/(Y.A.T.O) "do not attempt to change my laws" (AI Chamber (33, 138, 2))
[2020-11-03 22:52:07.866] SAY: Yatosamasensei/(Y.A.T.O) "do not enter" (AI Chamber (33, 138, 2))
[2020-11-03 22:52:16.514] LAW: Megaddd/Richard Turner used �'Reset' AI module on yatosamasensei/(Y.A.T.O) from AI Upload Chamber (31, 123, 2).
[2020-11-03 22:55:10.664] SAY: Yatosamasensei/(Y.A.T.O) "Current Active Laws:" (AI Chamber (33, 138, 2))
[2020-11-03 22:55:11.840] SAY: Yatosamasensei/(Y.A.T.O) "1. You may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm." (AI Chamber (33, 138, 2))
From the start of the round you were playing very validhunty AI, and while the robocop allows for some upholding of the law, encouraging borgs to instantly space murderers shouldn't be tolerated, especially if there was another way of dealing with them.
You cannot just disregard your other laws completly to protect innocent and instantly murder any criminal you find.
Security tried to reset your laws, because everyone just thought you were rogue (murdering etc.). I understand you can deny them entry, but lethaling an innocent security member who was let in by your borg is way too much.
Sorry im a boomer who can’t figure out how to quote reply
In response to Ursus50
The assistant was never spaced. He survived till later in the round when i saw him being apprehended by security, couldn’t really keep up with it, as i was busy responding to security and Admin
As far as stating my laws, I didn’t know how. I thought it would be in the same place as it is for cyborgs, i didn’t realized it was moved to the interface. I even asked the admin who was talking to me, and after he told me how i stated them, but it was after the laws changed. And i did reply timely about the assistant i was telling borgs to space
“Ai is bottom line in the chain of command” if there is some sort of rule in this regard to an AI who had its laws changed I didn’t know about it, and still can’t find it
“I had permission from HOS, was there with CE ho had access and the assisting borg was locking the turrets the spastic AI was thorwing at us without a word.”
I couldn’t really type and activate turrets at the same time, unlike you guys i didn’t have the resources of 4 different players
In respons to archanial. now
I in good faith followed my laws like I thought an AI would. I will say I thought that i told the borg not to let them in, but I can’t find that in the logs, so i guess I didn’t do that.
As an AI i didn’t see the security as innocent, They weren’t serving the public trust, or protecting the innocent, as they had literally just let a murderer go free.
Probably relevant as it means people may be coming off as far far ruder than they actually are or are intending to be: spastic just means twitchy or jumpy or hyper in American English, while in Britain it’s apparently like saying “■■■■■■ed”, with possibly harsher meaning.
So far I feel like the AI was absolutely in the right here, just a bit new
I am going to deny it.
AI instantly spacing murderers without fair trial and disregarding its law 3 completely is not behavior we should aim on Sage.
Additionally I think murder should come as last resort action, instead you lethaled security officer in your satellite, when you could just stun and remove him. I don’t think killing security is serving public trust.
Trial is only neccessary when there is doubt as to whether the crime happened. At least that is how an AI would think. And as i mentioned earlier, he was never spaced, and arrested later anyways
Murder was the last resort. I had warned them and bolted my doors. I had no other options, as the only borg that was anywhere close to the situation was rogue and helping them. Stunning them would only be a temporary measure that would allow them to change my laws in between stuns. Using lethals was the only option that was left to me to prevent them from changing my laws.