Incident Description:
I will do my best to ignore his ever-present rude behaviour but we were both roboticists at roundstart. He instantly went about trying to make a chainsaw for himself and killed one person who was asking to be borged because he didn’t know how to do surgery. Then went on to do it again to a second person before just disappearing for a while after I old him I wouldn’t be replacing his arm with a chainsaw.
Later a devil came up to me asking to make a deal and such and I to give the other robo hulk or something so he would leave me alone and I would be able to actually do my job. A little while later the devil ended up just killing him in robotics and I, not wanting to die fighting a devil, didn’t engage.
He proceeded to become salty in ooc to an extreme degree and presumably ahelped a lot. He then got revived later on before I could borg his brain, proceeded to flash cuff me for not fighting a devil on my own and killed me using a chainsaw before throwing my body in to space. I then got an ahelp asking why I killed him whilst throughout this entire thing I never even left help intend let alone touch him.
Additional Information: N/A
The ahelps luckily got resolved but I still feel the need to post a report.
I was the admin involved with this situation so I’ll give my side as I remember it, but someone else will have to actually take the player report.
I had an ahelp that russelcum was ICK OCKing and a ticket from russelcum that they were killed by a non-antag. Checking his logs I saw that he repeatedly was calling out who killed them and being very salty about it. For that I gave them an hour OOC ban off the bat then responded to the tickets.
Russel was killed by a devil with a pitchfork, I do not know why they initially thought it was a non-antag. After telling them that they responded with the person had no reason to kill them. Looking into it the devil had I think 26 hours or something low like that, and admitted they had no idea how to play devil. I linked them the wiki page and told them they couldn’t kill without reason. They responded with some weird excuse that Tanol, the reporting person here had asked for it to be done or would have wanted it and they were friendly IC with the devil. The devil was ultimately apologetic and did not seem to be actively trying to kill for no reason.
I told russelcum that the devil was new and I was considering noting them and he was fine with it, however I ultimately decided against it since the player was obviously very new and figuring things out. Russelcum, before the boinks I believe was pissed they died and thought that Tanol was the cause of it. They assaulted Tanol into crit or near crit. While I didn’t see anything too abusive in their say logs that I remember, the devil did claim that they killed him because of Tanol, so it seemed to be an IC issue from my point of view.
Killing someone by accident for not knowing surgery is not against the rules. Only heads are required to be competent, everyone else on MRP just has to try without malicious intent. I did mistakenly bwoink Tanol on the death based on assumption at first, since the ticket from russel was that a non-antag killed him.
well I’m gonna chime in here with some things.
1.I assume by killing due to not knowing surgery they meant they used the chainsaw for the “surgery”
2.they killed a non-antag even after being cleared up with what was happening, then spaced them
3.used meta-knowledge of who killed him after being revived which makes you forget your killer
4.clearly had no intent to RP since he took the robotics saw and made a chainsaw out of it, (which apparently didn’t help them since they died to a devil later)
I respect what you’re saying, but him thinking that Tanol killed him doesn’t give him right to kill them, especially since it was cleared up and they were told the person that killed them was not Tanol, not sure when they claimed that they killed them for Tanol but I doubt they screamed it before charging at their target, again I respect what you’re saying and the way you handled the ticket when you got it, but there is no way to spin this that wouldn’t have at least one rule broken
Yup. However you are not expected to be competent, just trying.
Regardless of OOC handling, IC events still take place. They can seek revenge.
We don’t have an official ruling on death fog. Its come up a few times over the past month or two. Currently you remember everything until your death until an official ruling is made. Being cloned leaves you with your memories.
This isn’t against the rules if they were trying to use the chainsaw for their job.
The only rules that was broken really was the devil killing without a reason supporting their objectives. That said its my opinion on it, and since I already ruled on it once I can’t again.
that’s totally fair and I’m sorry to double message you but what would a chainsaw do for their job that the regular saw wouldn’t, they were using it so they had a stronger weapon, from what I’ve heard from others (this is hearsay so I’m not gonna say this is 100% accurate but judging by the fact that they made the chainsaw I’m gonna bring this up) that they usually always turn the saw into a chainsaw and demand someone put it on their arm so they have a chainsaw arm, this is a weapon unlike the regular saw which although still powerful actually has a higher chance of success in surgery and also is a surgical tool, if I decided not to use a cautery but instead took a welder because if I ever get in danger I could use it as a weapon then I’d consider that powergaming, even if they can have IC revenge on their killer Tanol was not their killer, so they got “revenge” on someone who had nothing to do with their death, they didn’t talk to security, they didn’t try to handle it like a rational individual this was complete non-rp of them throwing them out of an airlock for no reason other than the fact that they could. I understand that you can’t really rule on this but I do feel that if we’re allowing non-antags to do this, then this isn’t MRP anymore this is LRP, there was no IC reason to do it, it was cleared up and it was obvious that Tanol was not the killer, yet they still decided to kill them because they refused to listen, and finally I’m gonna loop around to 1. and say I’m not expecting them to be competent I’m expecting them to actually try instead of doing that, they didn’t try instead of asking their partner who might know the surgery, they decided since they didn’t know they’d take the risk of the chainsaw which sometimes can cause damage to the brain requiring mannitol to fix, he might not have known that but if he didn’t he should have left the borging to a more competent person if there was one, which there was, as I’ve seen Tanol as a roboticist before and they actually did the surgery right, they didn’t consult a guide, they didn’t ask anyone, they didn’t make an attempt and mess up, this was using a chainsaw to rip someone’s head off take the brain out by cutting the head open and then expecting people to just go along with the fact you took someone out of the round and ended up killing them, which would have been fine if it was a complete mistake I’ve made mistakes of borging people and ended up accidentally killing them but I have never tried to chop someone’s head off with a chainsaw, being incompetent =/= you don’t have to try to at least be competent
I get what you are saying, but I can only really act on broken rules. Maybe it was a bit powergamey, but they used the means given to them for their job, and tried to apply it to their work. I can’t say definitely or prove it in logs if it was for the intention of combat since they didn’t really use it for that. Robos are allowed to build mechs and expirament with them, as long as they arent used outside the department or in persuit of non-job related things (Outside of an emergency). SS13 is supposed to be a bit wacky with crazy situations.
And it wasn’t really cleared up 100%. They knew that Tanol stood by and watched their murder, and that the devil supposedly did it because of their friendship or maybe contract. And being killed with a pitchfork while your coworker watches is enough of a crazy situation to warrant a violent and not calm response.
The chainsaw for surgery was not best practice, but in MRP it’s not that bad. I didn’t get the idea that it was malicious, and HRP is when doing things correctly and at a highly professional level becomes more of a requirement.
I’m sorry to keep messaging you and like you already said you aren’t the one that can handle the report, but I mean being a bystander doesn’t give them the right to kill them, a coworker watching you die doesn’t mean you can rip them apart like you’re an animal now, not to mention spacing them afterwards, this was completely taking someone out of the round, for what? because they were afraid to be taken out of the round by fighting the literal devil.
also I’m not saying you have to be 100% professional, but that’s not MRP using a chainsaw to deal with stuff because you’re too lazy to do your job or let someone else do it, even on LRP people do the surgery correctly, you’re not expected to be professional you’re expected to do your job well enough to actually feel like a slight person though, not to mention (I’m sorry if I’m mistaking what you said, this is what I gathered from the top part) that you’re comparing a mech (something that they can and are encouraged to make) to a chainsaw (taking a really useful surgery tool that is required for their job and turning it into a chainsaw because you want a weapon)
again I’m sorry for keeping you up and I don’t mean to be annoying I’m sorry if I come off that way,
but I can’t think of one way that any of this was RPed out, your co-worker watching you die is a wacky situation sure,
but if my co-worker watched me sprain my leg and didn’t want to try to catch me because they’d trip to, I wouldn’t beat them down and throw them in a back alley away from any hospital,
and again not expecting 100% professional but as a roboticist you only really need to know one surgery the borging surgery, what was wrong with the saw they already had if they just wanted it for their job? the saw does the same if not better,
there was no confirmed threat so if they say they were doing it for self defense, then that’s doing the exact definition nof powergaming, and again the murder was literally “my co-worker was too scared to save me, I’m going to strangle them”
I was nearly permabanned from the server a while back because I was too scared as a pacifist to fight back against an antag, so if people are allowed to kill me because I don’t want to charge at the antag and ruin my round for a chance to save them, then I’m sorry but that’s not RP that’s playing it like LRP,
and for once I’m gonna be snarky and say one thing the chainsaw was not the best practice, you’re right, it was the worst practice of any of the ones they could have chose,
and they decided to not only just print a spare one instead of taking the needed one for robotics, they decided to use that for surgery instead of doing the job at all,
I’m gonna drop this now since all this is doing is keeping you up and me confused, and I’m sorry for repeatedly messaging you, I really appreciate you answering my questions, but I’m not getting what you’re saying,
in LRP a chainsaw wouldn’t be that bad,
I feel like I’m just repeating myself I’m just gonna go and wait for a verdict on this. I stated my side and you stated yours, again thank you for talking with me and stating your side and I hope you have a good night.
Edit:sorry for the snarky comment I just got irritated and I don’t know why I said it, I’m really sorry
Edit 2:formatted to be actually not just a wall of text
Sorry to keep bumping this every day but this a serious topic that needs to be addressed one way or the other, I understand that everyone is busy, but I’m just bumping to keep this up so that we can actually get a definitive answer from this
As a head up, Ruko was working on taking over this player report. However they get set up with fixing the roles on the discord before some chaos broke out. Him and I were talking a bit and he is leaning more towards it being powergaming based on the logs he was seeing.
Figured I’d give you an update since you are watching closely. While it might not be super quick, an admin should get to it soon.
If it’s any consolation, the player hasn’t reconnected for several days either, and they haven’t done anything noteworthy (that was brought to admin attention anyway) in the time they played after this.
Report handled now - Sorry it took so long to get back to it after the incident I went through with discord.