Rule 0 and Rule 2 clarification regarding bigoted speech

Title: Unspecified Admin Consensus

CKEY: Caerie

Your Discord: None

Offender’s CKEY: Unspecified

LRP or MRP server: MRP/Sage

Offender’s In-Game Name (if relevant): ... 

Date (MM-DD-YYYY): 03-22-2021

Round Number: 28126

Rules Broken (if relevant): Rule 2/Rule 0

Part of Admin Conduct Broken (if relevant): None. 

Incident Description: Desmond Lyle referred to the Chief Engineer in a derogatory way by referring to them as a '■■■■■■■■■(sic)' because the HoP office power went out. I submitted a ticket, because '■■■■■■■■■' is an older derogatory word  for someone with Down's Syndrome, and an antiquated anthropological word for referring to people of East Asian descent. Tyranicranger4 handled the ticket, discussed the term '■■■■■■■■■' with other admins, according to their message, and determined the language to be acceptable, resolving the ticket, as is the admin's prerogative.

Additional Information: I absolutely disagree with this decision. Invoking the name of a race in anger (which is the best possible read of this phrase in context, with the worst being an actual slur towards people with Down’s) is inherently derogatory to that race. If he had said “Hurry up and turn my office power back on, you Asian person”, which is the complete translation of that phrase, the bigotry seems obvious. The racism is an application of a known negative stereotype at a time when anti-Asian violence is at so regularly on display, and seemingly blatantly against Rule 2

“Be patient with other players who may not know what they’re doing and assist them when you can; remember this is a newbie-friendly server before anything else and toxicity toward players for not understanding something will not be tolerated. In the spirit of this rule, no racial/homophobic slurs or generally intolerant behavior is permitted in or outside of the game. In-character racism between different species is permitted, but keep real-world slurs (including allusions to real slurs) and references out of it.”

This was both impatient, and alluding to real-world slurs. Invoking race as a pejorative addendum to a sentence is inherently racist, as you are invoking their race as though it relates to their inability to provide some specific service. Later on in that same round, Desmond Lyle used the word ‘cunt’ repeatedly for the same concept, which reeks of similarly sexist bigotry in the method of usage. I see no way either of these expressions from Desmond at the time could be taken as anything other than bigoted in their usage, although I do admit that ‘cunt’, at least, has regional differences in severity, being a much more severe term in American English than Australian English, and I did not specifically report that usage during the round, as I was honestly too busy managing the events themselves, much less my emotional state after being told that a clearly racist pejorative was within the rules, to express myself in the moment.

It is, of course, admin’s discretion as to what that would be, but I see no reason that either of the events aren’t bigoted, and even if for some reason both of those terms were acceptable, I don’t understand how that hostility and impatience fits at all beneath the Rule 2 ‘Be excellent to each other’ umbrella.

I have 240 hours playing on Sage. It’s my favorite server specifically because I don’t run into bigotry like this on it. This is my first encounter of anything to this degree, and I am utterly shocked that appending a racial type to an accusation of incompetence is somehow not racist. Whichever racial term is put in to replace the one that was chosen, it should be clear that the intent of the phrasing was clearly bigoted in nature, because it was invoked at all in that context.

In-character racism is one thing, but in SS13, ‘■■■■■■■■■’ isn’t a race. Only in real life.

If the issue cannot be revisited, I would at the very least like it explained to me why this decision was reached, seemingly by a consensus of admins represented to me by Tyranicranger4.

Thank you for your time.

i didnt even know mongoloid was racist, i tought it was just another word for stupid, I assume demond tought the same, guess I’ll ping em

@SaltyPenguin

I have never heard of this as anything more than a generic insult like calling someone a “moron”. I am one of the admins that agreed this wasn’t a word that needed to be filtered because without going to Wikipedia or Webter’s, there is no connotation for this as a slur.

I would understand this more as a “Be excellent to each other” complaint for someone being impatient, if that’s all this was. But even then, it’s not always going to be 100% about holding hands and people have room to get frustrated so long as it doesn’t start getting into the territory of being outright toxic.

Everything is offensive, if you just try hard enough to be offended.

i also see it more as an insult for being stupid then a slur

From now on everytime player wants to say something ingame they need to check wikipedia’s definition of every word in the sentence to make sure it doesn’t offend any minority or race in the slightest way.

5 Likes

That word has had issues and has had to be scrubbed out of medical terminology.

It’s out-of-date for a slur but you see it survive in your grandparents vocabulary. “Mongoloid” was used to referred to low mental capacity and when Dr. Down (of Down syndrome fame) referred to birth defects as ‘mongoloid’ features.

Dude thought Asian facial features was a good comparison to trisomy patients. It’s the kind of thing you never will know until it’s called out.

‘Mongoloid’ definitely should be on the word filter if it wasn’t already. Discriminatory shit toward Asian peoples is particularly relevant right now given the hate crimes in places like the US.

2 Likes

Since when was the “m word” a slur? I’ve been called it many times and called it many times and not once has anyone ever said it was a slur.

This just seems more like you weren’t happy that I called the engineering team bad and also i’ve literally never heard it be used as a slur towards asian people(?)

Mongoloid should be filtered, its history is pretty direct and it still gets used in a racially charged way by supremacist groups. It’s not even used THAT much in normal society, it’s more of an internet weirdo thing. You’d get your ass blasted if you used it like, on a news segment.

The other peculiarity to me, and the worst part of the content filter, is that mongoloid is a derogatory term about someone’s mental capacity/abilities. Which is something that I think is treated hypocritically.

If you throw down gamer slurs, that’s an obvious ban, but you’re also gonna get banned if you go to the discord/in-game and go on racist tirades about the inherent criminality of blacks of something. So it’s consistent.

With that other word starting with r we only ban it, but you’re free to (i do it all the time) call things dumb, autistic, etc. which means the point behind the word and why people hate it has been completely ignored.

I’d wager that that’s behind some of the confusion, people aren’t gonna post racial slurs and be caught by surprise since racism is widely banned. Either a more full crackdown is warranted (hope not lol,) or it should be dropped.

It can be both of those things, sadly.

It’s just one of those slurs with a history that makes you cringe once you realize you were using it until someone tells you.

I’ve been on Bee long enough to remember the n-word ban, and the reaction to it. I realize there’s pushback on this sort of thing.

I didn’t use it in a way that talked about race at all. The power had went out in the HOP’s office (My office) and I told engineering to hurry up and do their job to which me and and engineer started bickering about. This goes on and I believe I said to him “You fucking mongaloid” and then we fought for a bit and then I believe he was banned for tiding into my office and breaking everything in it

Also no admin or player has ever told me to not say the word. The entire fucking filtered words shit is utterly fucking stupid due to the fact that there is not a single list or mention of what specific words you can say and what words are gonna get you slapped with a ban

We should just ban every word on wikipedia’s list of pejorative terms for people.
(its about 2000 different words)
That will solve everything

4 Likes

I’ve never had a problem with shit like the nword being banned and shit but the very least you could do is tell us which words are banned or not, it shouldn’t be a game of fucking minesweeper to figure out what words I can call a spessman that is being stupid

Also the OP mentions that I was being racist towards asian people when I am pretty sure the guy I called the word was a black guy named “bob” Its pretty fucking obvious I didn’t say it because of his race because if I truly wanted to fucking racist there are many words I could have said that would actually fit his fucking race

4 Likes

I didn’t say you did, its about the history of the word itself

In literal terms, with the root and suffix of the word it means “similar to the mongol people” and you’re using it to call people stupid. We don’t even have to get into history to say it’s suspect

Racial slurs are filtered even if not used with racist intent, and I don’t want it to be a “HOLY SHIT, INSTANT BAN HE NO MERCY” since ss13 gamers (not the most polite or refined bunch if i may say so myself) use it innocently enough without thinking.

If it gets added to the filtered words then I am fine with that but can you please make a clear fucking list or something that shows what words are gonna make me take a smack from the big ol ban hammer

4 Likes

please i beg you dont turn beestation into twitter or reddit. please dont.

10 Likes

Is that necessary?
A. a list probably encourages people to find non-included words to bypass it, there’s a whole host of racial slurs to choose from that probably aren’t covered. I dunno if it’s good administration but eh, that’s for heads to decide
and
B. You aren’t getting banned for innocently using words. If it’s a first offense you might not even be noted at all, or at most it’s gonna be a note that expires in a month or two.

I’m pretty uhhh… loose with my language elsewhere, would be happier if this was loosened in general, and I still don’t really see the problem. All I’m saying is that it should be consistent, and consistent would mean filtering this

I think that being able to know what words I can use without being banned would be nice, or at least a generalization of them other than “no bigotry or slurs” especially when talking about something that I and other people didn’t see as racist or even know about any racist tones to it. I used a word to call someone stupid that I have seen others use in game multiple times.

This is more resetera tier tbh those sites don’t give a damn until you give them bad PR