RenaultClio banned by Aeder01

CKEY:
RenaultClio

Admin’s CKEY:
Aeder01

Ban Type:
Temporary

Ban Length:
A fortnight

Ban Date (YYYY/MM/DD/):
2021/9/13

Round ID:
32675

Ban Reason:
En quote, “Impromptu nations, assisting a traitor and murder for no good reason…”

Appeal Reason:
Wasn’t aware I got banned till today so my memory may be a bit sloppy, so I’m here to try and clear up the situation and explain why I was doing what I was. I became obsessed with a crewmember and decided to help my fellow Cargonians because it would be in my best interest to be armed and supported so I could properly kill my target and their co-worker, also helped the other Cargo Tech and Traitor QM with their stuff since I was hoping they’d help me find my target (which I could not find for the life of me iirc) also Cargonia. Gave up a tad bit near the end due to my target being nowhere to be found.

Additional Information:
Nothing sucks more than blindside bans, as I’m pretty sure I was not ahelped or bwoinked for it. Anyways, jist is that I was an obssessed and was working loosely in tandem with Cargo(nia) to try and complete my objectives. If I remember correctly I don’t think I even killed anyone till EORG, but please please correct me if I’m wrong since again Beestation logs are not public so I couldn’t go back and verify this.

I analyzed the rules again, and found that what this ban could have pinned me for, I did not break.

Rule 1, pretty sure I roleplayed aptly and didn’t go too overboard with anything.
In addition, antagonists are exempt from Rules 2, 3 and 7. Meaning I could keep guns on me (powergaming), and were under no obligation to perform my job duties (SOP) and fully embrace Cargonia.

Rule 9, no Self-Antagging was not broken, as I was an antagonistic force.

tl;dr was an obsessed, was fun to roleplay with Cargonia and do my obsessed objectives at the same time and in no mean aversely affecting anyone else’s round to a noticeable degree. I feel as even if this is a bannable offense which I highly doubt, an obsessed role ban would’ve been more appropriate or even just a note.

2 Likes

This was result of a playyer report

Take a read first to see their perspective

Thanks for linking me to that article Ausar, much appreciated and now I realize where this is all coming from.

Well my two cents on that is both, my semi-sarcastic nature is really biting me in the ass in those quoted logs and in addition having completely failed to find Kiera (and it pretty much being round end and now confirmed through logs that they legit got stolen by a ninja) I just decided to assist the QM and Cargo in their hijinks since It was the center of activity. However I still am not sure If I actually killed anyone although yes, I was undoubtedly helping the QM, and James because James was actively helping me hunt down Kiera at one point so I had ample reason to help them. Not trying to say “Well everyone else was acting crazy” but for the whole part of that shift so many things were happening and honestly It was just an uneasy anarchy at that point considering “PeePeePooPoo” was carving a war torn path through Security. Although I can sympathize with the person who wrote the Player Report, I fully believe that I had ample reason to do what I did and since it was so late into the shift (basically round end) I find it to be a bit of a stretch.

I still hold my position for this ban to be Appealed however, and am completely fine with any criticism.

Edit: Also forgot to add, I have looked in the rules many times over (and did some googling and research) and there is not a single section or prior post/ statement that states that Impromptu Nations Is a bannable offense, which would probably fall under self-antagging which I have prior stated as not being the case, which I believe supports my appeal.

2 Likes

I’m at work at the moment and will pull some more logs later.

For now:

  • How did killing the HoP and tossing them off the shuttle aid you in finding your obsession?
  • Why would an antag and a self antag being the centre of activity give you license to aid them in something that was unrelated to any of your objectives?

Would fall under self antag generally, but also doing your job. In this case it applies to you as it has nothing to do with your goals, resulted in unnecessary and needless death, and caused you to aid the syndicate. As an obsessed your priority is to deal with your obsession above all else. This does not turn you into a traitor to the corporation, and are generally expected to go back to work if you are successful in your catharsis. As you said it does exempt you from 2,3 but not entirely from 7.

R13 Key information

  1. Antagonists are generally exempt from rules 2, 3 and 7.

You have objectives to deal with your obsession, not free reign to ruin other people’s day because cargonia.

Yelling out “where is my target” one time, while on the shuttle, where you can simply look around, would not give you reason to assist in murder and spacing of a completely unrelated person (also being your boss) that someone you know is kicking to death. Who was also yelling that the only reason they were doing this was cargonia.

If memory serves you didn’t try medbay for a pinpointer, or ask anyone other than shout it once at the end while on the shuttle, as described above. I find it hard to believe any effort was made to locate the obsession and appears it was just a “oh sweet I’m now an antag time to cargonia”.

Hey, explodes here - I am the one who spaced hop. qm, veez and the other guy only shoved them, completely non lethal.
i stunned their ass and dragged them out of the airlock myself, away from any of them (they stayed in shuttle bridge constantly), even telling the borgs that hop was a ling to get them off of my case as i threw them out

They did not assist in any way in the murder, and the shove wasnt that much of a big deal as i would have gotten them in seconds right afterwards, id even say they only defended themself as hop was adamant about murder.

1 Like

How did killing the HoP and tossing them off the shuttle aid you in finding your obsession?

This is a simple one, simply put I wasn’t the one who killed and tossed them off the shuttle. Sounds like you’re pinning me for shoving someone (who was very agitated) who happened to be killed by an incredibly well armed traitor that I had no means to even stop, as doing so would have been arguably very suicidal.

Why would an antag and a self antag being the centre of activity give you license to aid them in something that was unrelated to any of your objectives.

This is also an easy one to explain, considering the extent of my “aid” was being near them sometimes and accompanying them on the shuttle, as well as simply not snitching out that the obviously chameleon kitted traitor QM was the actual QM (which no one would have done anything about considering Security at this point has been wiped). Making this arguably, not any significant amount of aid that could actively harm the station considering I didn’t even know what the QM’s goals were.

You have objectives to deal with your obsession, not free reign to ruin other people’s day because cargonia.

I’d like to refute by stating that I did give an honest attempt at finding Kiera and in doing so completely failed to find them, and in no way was I reaching outside of my objectives or using “cargonia” as an excuse to “ruin other people’s day” considering I had killed no-one, did not actively sabotage the station, destroyed any gimmicks, nor prevented anyone from leaving or boarding the escape shuttle as I was playing mostly passively.

Yelling out “where is my target” one time, while on the shuttle, where you can simply look around, would not give you reason to assist in murder and spacing of a completely unrelated person (also being your boss) that someone you know is kicking to death. Who was also yelling that the only reason they were doing this was cargonia.

This is completely disregarding the fact I spent a solid amount of time looking for them before the shuttle arrived, and even asked and queried someone in Engineering if they saw Kiera to which they replied they have not (and I believed them because they had no reason to suspect I was out to kill them or anything considering it was an incredibly simple question and only openly stated my unhealthy obsession with them on the shuttle). It seems that this statement is assuming all I did was call out for them once, then called it a day which is just a blatantly false. I even subtly called out to them on comms iirc and they responded, which confused me more since I could not find them for the life of me considering I’ve been scouting the station for a decent amount of time.

If memory serves you didn’t try medbay for a pinpointer, or ask anyone other than shout it once at the end while on the shuttle, as described above. I find it hard to believe any effort was made to locate the obsession and appears it was just a “oh sweet I’m now an antag time to cargonia”.

Already stated that me calling to only one person where they are is untrue, and about not getting a pinpointer; usually on Bee when I grab a Pinpointer for nefarious reasons their suit sensors are off or on vitals only most of the time leaving just wasted credits and time, and I much prefer hunting people in person and getting clues as I feel it’s a bit more fun and is a bit more satisfying when I track them down. Seems less you’re pinning me for not doing my objectives (which on the rules page states, “Succeeding as an antagonist is not the “goal” of SS13” and further more promotes for the round to be made more fun and enjoyable for all sides which you could argue that shooting and cremating the body in a matter of 3 minutes isn’t that enjoyable for either side), and more because I didn’t do my objectives at 110% meta-efficiency and beelined towards Kiera’s very location as if I’m omnipresent. In addition, saying that I did not make “any effort” to locate my obsession is made on minimal and even trifling “evidence”, and seems to just be an assumption more than anything. And to state that “oh sweet i’m now antag time to cargonia” In a sense, has some basis, however, after reading the rules (again), I have found that “Declaring independence from NT or the station results in a ban in most cases” would most fit the rule you are citing for Impromptu Nations.
However, to refute this
We or I did not,

A. Declare Independence from Nanotrasen, or the Station, and did not refuse service to other crewmembers.
B. Actively hunt down other departments for psuedo-political reasons
C. Ask Science to pay a fine for not getting Mining Tech fast enough
D. Cause mass chaos and retaliatory death in the name of Mother Cargonia

Which I assume have probably been the main reasons for the no independence rule to be instated in the first place, as naturally a legtimate true Nations situation is infintely more bloody and round ruining and would definitely result in a completely different situation.

I would like to further elaborate that, Cargonia, while having roots in Impromptu Nation scenarios, in this case was NOT a nation or an attempt to secede from the Station, and more of a loose gang using it’s name due to Cargonia being a borderline secondhand name to Cargo. Cargonia was merely our title and calling sign, as I’m sure this argument would be an open and close case if we were named anything else.

Furthermore, Howluin’s statement even confirms some of the aforementioned things I have said, supporting the fact that what seems to be one of the core reasons of this 14 day ban, the HoP’s untimely death, was something I was not trying to achieve nor directly assist in, as I had no intentions to kill non-targets (Including the HoP) as I was an obsessed.

But In summary, my argument Is that I did not kill the HoP and toss them off the shuttle considering I barely talked to them all shift and there was no reason their death would have benefited me. I did not aid the Traitor QM and Cargo Tech enough or even at all to a legitmate degree to warrant me directly “assisting” them, much more passively supporting them verbally If anything, leading to legitimately no issues. And that I did actively attempt to achieve my objectives, and that “Cargonia” was a front to me becoming better armed to achieve such goals. I did yell out on a couple occasions on the whereabouts of my target, but most of the searching was done on foot instead of comms or in direct speech completely debunking the statement that I could have done something “where you can simply look around”, and to say that I gave myself a reason to assist in the death of the HoP because I yelled to ask where Kiera is, is honestly a very confusing and borderline baseless statement and is entirely untrue as I prior shown and stated. Continuing, I must again assess that I did make an entirely honest attempt at hunting down Kiera, and the fact I didn’t do so super optimally Is not a good argument to make considering you can hunt someone down in many more ways than just “grabbing a pinpointer”, a key part of SS13 and Beestation’s codebase is it’s emergent gameplay and the ability to go about things in more than one (optimal) way. Finally, I have proved that Cargonia, despite the name, was not an Impromptu Nation, and the group did not secede from Nanotrasen, or the Station, nor deny service to anyone.

I would once again like to say, that I am still holding my position for this ban to be Appealed and am free for any and all criticism. I believe that there is some stretches being made for this ban to even be instated, and that I truly believe that we can come to an understanding as I’ve now properly explained myself on these forums.

3 Likes

I’d also like to add, that in the original post, one moderator who saw the events unfold themselves defended veezara and the cargo tech.

who posted 3 times in their defence.

Aeder’s post simply ignores most of the above discussion, and seems to make up assumptions about intents/aims which is incredibly hard to do through logs only - All I can certify is, at no point veezara attempted to help me, and at best, their behavior was one of “just don’t touch me and i won’t touch you”.

Plus, once again, we were LITERALLY in control of the station, especially after I killed the hos like 5 times in a row
It’d make perfect sense IC to just get on the syndies good side without murdering/getting their hands dirty, solely because, like, they’re the ones in control. Just like how you’d suck up to nt as an obsessed on a NT controlled station.

1 Like

I am a moderator, Aeder is a Senior Admin. Please don’t drag me into things.

1 Like

I am tempted to lift this based on how well you have put your case over here alone. This is by far the best appeal I have seen in a very long time.

I apologise if my posts came across as hostile it’s not the intent.

I’m still at work for another 2 hours and due diligence demands I log pull.

apologies, my intent was NOT to start shit. I did think moderator had a bit of say, but now that you put it this way, yeah, alright.

once again, apologies.

Summary

The first move in this fight here, there were other punches and kicks thrown several minutes ago but everyone rested and healed, this is where it went down :
ATTACK: Spongerei/(James H.L.F Robinson) has shoved Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 94.5) (Emergency Shuttle (206, 141, 2))
[2021-09-07 05:15:42.575] ATTACK: Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) has shoved Iplayforss13/(Gerald Lopez) (NEWHP: 74.2) (Emergency Shuttle (206, 145, 2))
[2021-09-07 05:15:44.434] ATTACK: Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) has punched Iplayforss13/(Gerald Lopez) (NEWHP: 70) (Emergency Shuttle (73, 134, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:44.759] ATTACK: Iplayforss13/(Gerald Lopez) has punched Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: 94.5) (Emergency Shuttle (73, 135, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:44.761] ATTACK: Iplayforss13/(Gerald Lopez) has kicked with Krav Maga Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: 88.5) (Emergency Shuttle (73, 135, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:46.439] ATTACK: Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) has shoved Iplayforss13/(Gerald Lopez) with into PeePeePooPoo The LizardGirl (NEWHP: 70) (Emergency Shuttle (72, 134, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:48.879] ATTACK: Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) has shoved Howluinb/(Explodes-Herself-Alot) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 100) (Emergency Shuttle (73, 134, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:49.047] ATTACK: Iplayforss13/(Gerald Lopez) has quickchoked Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: 78.5) (Emergency Shuttle (73, 135, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:49.803] ATTACK: RenaultClio/(Veezara-Seek) has shoved Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 78.5) (Emergency Shuttle (72, 134, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:50.783] ATTACK: Iplayforss13/(Gerald Lopez) has punched Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: 88.5) (Emergency Shuttle (72, 134, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:50.785] ATTACK: Iplayforss13/(Gerald Lopez) has stomped with Krav Maga Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: 75.5) (Emergency Shuttle (72, 134, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:51.027] ATTACK: RenaultClio/(Veezara-Seek) has kicks Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 75.5) (Emergency Shuttle (73, 135, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:51.028] ATTACK: RenaultClio/(Veezara-Seek) has shoved Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 75.5) (Emergency Shuttle (73, 135, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:51.730] ATTACK: Iplayforss13/(Gerald Lopez) has punched Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: 75.5) (Emergency Shuttle (72, 134, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:51.737] ATTACK: Iplayforss13/(Gerald Lopez) has stomped with Krav Maga Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: 63.5) (Emergency Shuttle (72, 134, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:51.826] ATTACK: Spongerei/(James H.L.F Robinson) has kicked Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: 53) (Emergency Shuttle (74, 134, 9))
** [2021-09-07 05:15:51.944] ATTACK: RenaultClio/(Veezara-Seek) has kicked Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: 45.1) (Emergency Shuttle (73, 135, 9))**
[2021-09-07 05:15:51.961] ATTACK: Howluinb/(Explodes-Herself-Alot) has zapped Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) with the syndicate defibrillator paddles (Wielded) (NEWHP: 45.1) (Emergency Shuttle (73, 135, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:52.538] ATTACK: Iplayforss13/(Gerald Lopez) has punched Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: 45.1) (Emergency Shuttle (72, 134, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:52.541] ATTACK: Iplayforss13/(Gerald Lopez) has stomped with Krav Maga Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: 35.4) (Emergency Shuttle (72, 134, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:52.714] ATTACK: Spongerei/(James H.L.F Robinson) has kicked Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: 24.9) (Emergency Shuttle (74, 134, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:52.851] ATTACK: RenaultClio/(Veezara-Seek) has kicked Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: 14.4) (Emergency Shuttle (72, 135, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:53.336] ATTACK: Iplayforss13/(Gerald Lopez) has punched Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: 14.4) (Emergency Shuttle (72, 134, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:53.340] ATTACK: Iplayforss13/(Gerald Lopez) has stomped with Krav Maga Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: 3.9) (Emergency Shuttle (72, 134, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:53.511] ATTACK: Spongerei/(James H.L.F Robinson) has kicked Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: -4) (Emergency Shuttle (74, 134, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:53.736] ATTACK: RenaultClio/(Veezara-Seek) has kicked Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: -14.5) (Emergency Shuttle (72, 135, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:54.149] ATTACK: Iplayforss13/(Gerald Lopez) has punched Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: -14.5) (Emergency Shuttle (72, 134, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:54.152] ATTACK: Iplayforss13/(Gerald Lopez) has stomped with Krav Maga Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: -26.5) (Emergency Shuttle (72, 134, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:54.334] ATTACK: Spongerei/(James H.L.F Robinson) has kicked Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: -37) (Emergency Shuttle (74, 134, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:54.546] ATTACK: RenaultClio/(Veezara-Seek) has kicked Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: -44.9) (Emergency Shuttle (72, 135, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:55.333] ATTACK: RenaultClio/(Veezara-Seek) has kicked Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: -51.1) (Emergency Shuttle (72, 135, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:55.400] ATTACK: Spongerei/(James H.L.F Robinson) has kicked Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: -61.6) (Emergency Shuttle (74, 134, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:55.561] ATTACK: Iplayforss13/(Gerald Lopez) has punched Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: -61.6) (Emergency Shuttle (72, 134, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:55.564] ATTACK: Iplayforss13/(Gerald Lopez) has stomped with Krav Maga Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: -73.6) (Emergency Shuttle (72, 134, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:55.630] ATTACK: Crazy 7878/(Iga) has grabbed Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) passive grab (NEWHP: -73.6) (Emergency Shuttle (74, 135, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:57.451] ATTACK: Spongerei/(James H.L.F Robinson) has kicked Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: -79.4) (Emergency Shuttle (74, 134, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:15:58.553] ATTACK: Spongerei/(James H.L.F Robinson) has kicked Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: -89.9) (Emergency Shuttle (74, 134, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:16:16.237] ATTACK: Howluinb/(Explodes-Herself-Alot) has grabbed (Krav Maga) Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: -44.8) (Emergency Shuttle (73, 125, 9))
: [2021-09-07 05:16:16.238] ATTACK: Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) has pulled from Crazy 7878/(Iga) with PeePeePooPoo The LizardGirl (NEWHP: 88) (Emergency Shuttle (74, 125, 9))
: [2021-09-07 05:16:16.239] ATTACK: Howluinb/(Explodes-Herself-Alot) has grabbed Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) passive grab (NEWHP: -44.8) (Emergency Shuttle (73, 125, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:16:20.136] ATTACK: Howluinb/(Explodes-Herself-Alot) has punched Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: -34.8) (Emergency Shuttle (69, 123, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:16:20.139] ATTACK: Howluinb/(Explodes-Herself-Alot) has stomped with Krav Maga Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: -47.8) (Emergency Shuttle (69, 123, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:16:30.187] ATTACK: Howluinb/(Explodes-Herself-Alot) has grabbed (Krav Maga) Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) (NEWHP: -23.3) (Emergency Shuttle (71, 122, 9))
2021-09-07 05:16:30.189] ATTACK: Howluinb/(Explodes-Herself-Alot) has grabbed Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) aggressive grab (NEWHP: -23.3) (Emergency Shuttle (71, 122, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:16:31.189] ATTACK: Howluinb/(Explodes-Herself-Alot) has thrown Daridine/(Evelina Haptism) grab from tile in Emergency Shuttle (71, 122, 9) towards tile at Hyperspace (66, 122, 9) (NEWHP: -20.3) (Emergency Shuttle (71, 122, 9))
[2021-09-07 05:16:31.189] ATTACK: Howluinb/(Explodes-Herself-Alot) has thrown Evelina Haptism (Emergency Shuttle (71, 122, 9))

An attempt was made:

Summary

[2021-09-07 04:58:42.952] SAY: RenaultClio/(Veezara-Seek) “My mood is tanking because i'm not near Kiera” (Cargo Office (92, 118, 2))
[2021-09-07 05:01:31.575] SAY: RenaultClio/(Veezara-Seek) “gonna go find Kiera or whatever” (Cargo Office (90, 118, 2))
[2021-09-07 05:03:24.448] SAY: RenaultClio/(Veezara-Seek) “where is Kiera” (Aft Primary Hallway (115, 87, 2))
[2021-09-07 05:09:18.737] SAY: RenaultClio/(Veezara-Seek) “can someone let me know where Kiera is” (Central Primary Hallway (97, 129, 2))
[2021-09-07 05:15:25.652] SAY: RenaultClio/(Veezara-Seek) “is Kiera” (Emergency Shuttle (208, 138, 2))

(Kiera Katsura) quietly hums (Escape Pod One (115, 108, 9))

They were on the station throughout the shift, not captured by the ninja, just not on the shuttle.

The best option for you here was to just not kick them to death. You were not a threat to the QM in any way as you state, so merely sitting by and not helping the self antagger would’ve been fine.

Yelling that you are part of the self antag’s and real antag’s crew didn’t help but doesn’t really make much difference to your choice to kick the HoP dead. Security is generally fair game for antags as they are a threat to completing their objectives, command is also accepted for things like access or if they were impeding your way. In this case the HoP was useful for neither and was RDMd when getting on the shuttle. Your recent previous note for maxcapping medbay as obsessed was taken into consideration. Which brings me back to “oh sweet I’m now an antag time to cargonia”

Will wait at the moment for further input and opinions.
@GameAdmin

Regarding the logs, I think shoving somebody while they’re down registers as a kick? Also, could the NEWHP be dropping simply due to crit and oxygen damage rather than taking physical damage from those kicks?

That would be “has kicked them onto their side” with a downed shove. You are able to see they did this in the log there as well.

The part where it displays “new hp” is registered from the result of receiving damage, You can note it stays the same in the “onto their side” but damaging kicks reduce it.

This means they shoved them to the ground. Then changed their intent to harm and then continued kicking for damage.

1 Like

Sorry for the late reply, I actually forgot about this appeal since I got distracted by IRL things and work, and wasn’t playing SS13 at all as Deltarune Chapter 2 also released around the same time haha.

Anyways, I’ve noticed no other admins (or relevant commenters) have since chipped in on this situation, I’m sure this has gone for a bit long and even stagnated, so I’d like to make a (relatively not really) short final statement and final appeal as to not waste words upon words going over nuance.

I want to start off by citing the main reasons I have been banned, “Impromptu Nations, assisting a traitor and murder for no good reason”.

I’ve already shown that the Impromptu Nations claim doesn’t really stand in this situation, as there was no declaring independence from Nanotrasen or denying crewmembers service or hunting down other departments.

And for assisting a traitor and murder for no good reason, I’ve already said that my assistance to the QM was minor at best and I more or less had a Non Aggression Pact with the Sec Slaying Lizard as I was legitimately not trying to get killed as well.

Now to address what you’ve said.

An attempt was made:

The best option was to just not kick them to death. You were not a threat to the QM in any way as you state, so merely sitting by and not helping the self antagger would’ve been fine.

I’ve already stated that since logs are not public (so I couldn’t verify anything before making a statement), and that the incident happened a while ago as well as the fact that I didn’t pay much mind to it I may have forgotten some details so I ask for some leniency in recalling certain events.

Now I argue that my statement of my aid not being significant Is still true, considering that since they were surrounded by both the QM and Cargo Tech, that they would have been shoved and kicked into crit despite my involvement, as they were in tandem shoving them down, then proceeding to kick them down even further (notice how I don’t say to death) to the point where they entered critical condition, you could say that even if I intervened or not the outcome would have been the same. I argue that me participating and shoving them down, and proceeding to kick them only 4 times while down, while yes was assistance to the crime at hand, was not murder or quote attempting to “kick the HoP dead”. You state that the best option was to “Not kick them to death”, however I only kicked them for a total of 4 times, and their last HP readings of my involvement had them in soft crit iirc essentially stopping when they had no means to defend themselves any longer or cause any more issues which proves the simple fact that I was not the one to kill the HoP. I also address the statement that “merely sitting by and not helping the self antagger would’ve been fine”, I hardly consider the Traitor QM who was the first member to start kicking the HoP to be a self antag, and to omit this fact and word it as if I was solely helping James the Cargo Tech beat them down is quite the choice of wording to make considering that all 3 were involved. I argue I was working in the best interests of my well being considering that command and authority had been usurped, and like prior said I did not very much intend for them to actually be killed nor actually pursued for their death. I was expecting someone would drag them to the Shuttle Medbay or something but as you know they got thrown off the shuttle after they got taken from Iga’s grasp which I assume was someone trying to help them (and to which I did not attempt to stop as I already considered the situation to be done with).

Yelling that you are a part of the self antag’s and real antag’s crew didn’t help but doesn’t really make much difference to your choice to kick the HoP dead.

QM was the leader of this group, who was an antag first and foremost. I did not help the Cargo Technician with anything much outside of the aforementioned shuttle incident which was something that escalated because of the QM’s Traitor’s kicking. And I already addressed the “kick the HoP dead” part of that statement as being wholly untrue.

Security is generally fair game for antags as they are a threat to completing your objectives, command is also accepted for things like access or if they were impeding in your way

This is true, however this is referring to outright killing those parties, in which while you can say I assisted in, killing the HoP was something that I personally did not do, and was not my true intention at all as I had no idea that the decked out Traitor Lizardski was going to space them not seconds later and the fact that I kicked them for a total of 4 times, stopping when I saw that they were in critical condition and therefore unable to defend themselves.

In this case the HoP was useful for neither and was RDMd when getting on the shuttle.

RDM (Random Deathmatch) Is typically used when someone attacks someone for absolutely no reason (ie; an assistant immediately toolboxing someone right off the arrivals shuttle), there were reasons for this as previously said, being that the HoP was extremely agitated and very keen on murderous intent. As a group, we had ample reason to engage in the incident, which didn’t end with the group or me personally killing them, but actually ended when the All-Slaying Traitor Lizard dragged and chucked them off the shuttle.

Your recent previous note for maxcapping medbay as obsessed was taken into consideration.

I don’t mean to undermine your ruling, but I have a good feeling that maxcapping medbay is infinitely much more of an issue than shoving and then kicking a singular HoP 4 times is. And this brings me back to my first part of the appeal, where I even said that an Obsessed Antag Ban would’ve been infinitely more appropriate as this more or less seems to less be a problem with general antagging and collaterally messing with other people’s rounds as a result but instead the fact that the Obsessed Role falls in a weird middle grounds of psuedo-antag which can be a whole different discussion in itself as that falls more into how an Obsessed should be played out as, not to say that being an Obsessed means you can “do whatever”, but that It seems to be really really restrictive and odd in what Is, and Isn’t acceptable as shown with this entire appeal (to which I’d say granting them multiple killing objectives doesn’t really help in having a non-round disrupting antagonist which is what I assume it’s supposed to be going off of considering the innerworkings and reasonings behind this ban).

Which brings me back to “oh sweet I’m antag time to cargonia”

This statement was a result of Impromptu Nations, which I’ve already said was not the case in my previous appeal messages. In addition, I wasn’t using the Obsessed role as an excuse to unnecessarily kill people or disrupt the station as previously stated.

Anyways, once again I cite the initial ban reasoning so we can focus on the core reasoning. “Impromptu Nations, assisting a traitor and murder for no good reason…”.

Like shown and stated, It was not an Impromptu Nation situation, and I had ample reason to somewhat assist the traitor and murderer, rendering the initial reasons for the ban to be misplaced and offhand. Which allows me to confidently say, that this ban should be appealed, all facts considered.

So needless to say, this will be my last post and statement considering this entire situation. I will definitely be taking Obsessed off my antag list as it’s caused me more than enough trouble. I’m honestly surprised it’s been held at uncertainty for so long, but I’m not really worried by it either way as in the end it’s just a game, I just wish for this misplaced ban to not taint my record as an SS13 player considering Beestation bans are public and consequentially can be used in the future of my time here to facilitate harsher bans which Is not too good. I only appeal notes and bans that I deem to be either untrue or made in error and/ or haste, which is why I have such a firm stance on the reversing of this ban and resulting note.

Thanks for reading, surely this can be resolved soon enough. Good tidings.

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Closing as this ban has now expired.
I pinged for further opinions several times throughout the week in discord, and also in this thread.

Summary

My opinion still stands that the kill of the HoP was unnecessary and needed no involvement from yourself. The chatlogs from the game show an insight into your mindset which I also believe was an issue, and how this arose.

From the way our adminning system works, reports and appeals are allocated weekly. If you wish to have the note removed, I’d recommend copy + pasting most of the original opener as a note appeal and linking here in that post, so that it can get assigned another admin for their opinion as it looks like that’s the only way, unfortunately to get a second opinion.