Remove EOTC from Space Law

EOTC has no place on bee. Validity rules completely fill its role on Golden. EOTC on Sage only feeds into the awful anti-RP sentiment of “SEC KILL BAD MAN. BAD MAN KILL SEC”.

Kindly remove it so I can court Marshall the absolute FUCK about of shit sec on Sage.


In the end this achieves absolutely nothing and only causes issues that could have been avoided

Can’t seccies at least make a spectacle out of early executions

From reading your post, I can only think of snarky replies on asking how many times you’ve been killed by sec for being a friendly/gimmicky antagonist.

Also the fact you mention shitsec immediately after finishing your Ted-Talk about it is quite the cherry ontop.


talked about this in mentor chat but this will only introduce rule lawyring for antags. With sec to afraid to do anything usefull because of bwoink. This will likely make antags absolute hell for everyone

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I play sec more than I get antag. And when I get antag I generally do fine. I don’t quite enjoy being non antag in a round where all the antags are dead 30 minutes in because of EOTC enabling them to be executed for little reason.

Edit: my forum PFP is literally a sec lizard

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It’s really, really, really not hard to make the judgement call “this dude clearly isn’t an active threat”


its not about sec making the call its about forcing it upon them with OOC consequences. This at best wont change anything and at worse make many problems with bee from manageable to pain

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I genuinely fail to see how “No you can’t execute people for being a traitor alone” would not produce any positive results, or how it would create rules lawyer problems.

It would give poor traitors a chance to come back and maybe fail again.

It would stop non-traitors being instantly murdered by accident. Recently I Observed a communication error with Sec causing them to think someone who was flashed by an antag, was the antag. They sent him to penal colony, realised their mistake, and paid him for the ore he mined as an apology. Coul;dn;t happen if Sec instantly executed them.

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Blood cult would be legal, lings would be beyond impossible to arrest, traitors can always just claim ignorance even with there syndicate hardsuit in full public, nukies could also walts around if they dont declare war until they shoot the first person, wizards cant be attacked without having attacked first, bb etc etc etc

Nanotrasen contractually owns the souls of all employees, giving your soul to a cult is a breach of contract and Security is there to protect NT interests, so deconversion/elimination of a cult is within their purview.

Lings usually murder at least one person, the act of impersonating crew subverts the chain of command and is therefore mutiny.

Traitors with a syndicate hardsuit are in possession of a restricted weapon (ok, that charge really needs to be changed to possession of restricted contraband or something, fair point).

Nukies pose an immediate and imminent threat to the station, regardless of their actions or lack of them, under space law this is grounds for use of lethal force.

Wizards are an imminent and immediate threat as well, but even if they’re friendly and no one wants to gun them down, their very presence on the station is trespassing/breaking and entering, they are creating a workplace hazard by existing, their very nature means they are in possession of explosives and restricted weapons, and they are committing assault on an officer with their terrible fashion sense. If they try ordering anyone around or doing things they shouldn’t, that’s mutiny as well.

Blood Brothers, depending on their objectives, can be charged with a variety of things. IN general, you can probably charge them with mutiny for colluding together to act outside the chain of command, or at minimum insubordination (mutiny is such a versatile charge).

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its no where stated this occures, when you sell your soul to devil you cant be revived so this isant clear

You cant prove this, and arresting some one without evidence is just as shit sec

Isant a weapon nor would it be contraband, since syndicate isant enemy of the corp

You woundlt know this unless you found weapons on them or they harmed some one

Same as before, punishing for a crime they havent commited yet

there goal never is subversion

For many antags what will happen is you either must shit sec them and arrest them without propper evidence or just live with the fact they roam free. As its trivial to cover your tracks. Also it woundlt make sense for most items to be contraband since things like syndie hardsuits are only contraband because they belong to enemy corp, which this would nullify

Yeah there have been many times where I thought it was a greenshift, turns out every heretic got strip-searched and killed in the first 30 minutes.


I think it can be reasonably inferred that joining a cult to summon an eldritch abomination involves some form of metaphysical change of the soul. In addition, cults almost inevitably involve murder or assault when gaining new converts, and the act of summoning an eldritch abomination to destroy the station will fall under attempted murder or grand sabotage.

If you have physical evidence, witnesses, etc. you absolutely can prove it. And yeah, you shouldn’t arrest someone without evidence, but having the ‘enemy of the corp’ charge exist doesn’t really provide any evidence either, ever since ling tests were removed. Even if it did, it’s boring and lame to arrest/execute someone because “they haven’t done anything we can prove, but they are an enemy of the corp, so lets do it anyways”.

True, it is not a weapon, I do think that particular charge under space law needs a revision if enemy of the corp is removed, but the suit is absolutely still contraband. The syndicate is an enemy of the corp, even if that particular legal charge is removed.

A strike team sent expressly to detonate the on-station nuclear warhead is an immediate threat to the station. If you recognize someone as a nukie, they are a threat, regardless of any weaponry or harm they have or have not committed.

We’re not punishing them for a crime here, we’re using Space Law’s use of lethal force guidelines and applying them. In-universe, the crew has a vague idea that there are threats out there, and security would logically have a better idea than the average crewmember. They know wizards are bad news already.

I would argue that the very act of colluding to achieve some goal without authorization meets the criteria for subversion, but regardless, we’re engaging in creative legal interpretations to demonstrate why the Enemy of the Corp charge is not necessary for security to deal with antags.

The Enemy of the Corp charge does nothing to alleviate shitsec, and living with the fact that some antags get away should be encouraged. You’re trying to create an interesting story, not constantly ensure a perfectly safe station all the time.

We can make a distinction between enemy of the corp as a legal charge and enemy of the corp as a concept.

Cult is a direct massive threat to the station. Syndi hard suit is contraband which the law needs to be rewritten to contain all contraband. Nukies are a direct massive threat, wizards shouldn’t be attacked first anyway.


This woundlt make sense at all, syndicate are NT’s enemies yet its members arent?

Saying this in game would in RP sense be meta gaming. Since you arent supposed to know about them or there intentions

Even if they WOULD know this. There is no legal grounds to kill them because again they arent EOTC

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Nuke ops come with an expectation of Nuking the station.

We’re already super metagamey with antag knowledge, so.

either this works and is enforced and makes it really frustrating to play sec or no one will care


if “dont execute people who arent a threat” is “frustrating”, then anyone who thinks that should stop playing security on sage, and go valid hunt on golden

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