Proposed Storage Item Rework (BoH, Trashbag, Bodybag, Boxes, etc etc)

Testing for opinions before I mess with any code. This is meant to destroy the current awful bag/box stacking meta, add more availability and make storage less obnoxious. It also does away with some bullshit that should’ve been removed ages ago. I’m expecting you to vote so I can know whether to devote time to this or not. If this gets good votes, I’ll make the PR and hopefully make the game a bit nicer. If you don’t like it, remember that giving constructive criticism helps solve issues, while meming or clinging to old stuff helps no one.

Rework would do the following:

Naming:

  • Renames BoH to Bluespace Backpack. For reasons that will be seen below.

Fixing obnoxious storage layering strategies and ridiculous total space:

  • Reclassifies any bags/backpacks as their own item size (likely “carried”, ie “it is a carried item”).
  • Makes it so that bags/packs can’t fit into other bags/packs, not even into BoH, no more layering shit for more space. This is why the above size category would be added.
  • Increases BoH’s capacity based on what a BoH filled with bags can carry currently, minus 20-40% based on how huge that capacity is. I’d have to do proper measuring and balancing, but you can trust me to not make it broken or bad.
  • Changes boxes, instead of being general storage, boxes would only hold their specific items, similar to belts and department bags. For example a lights box would only be able to hold flashlights, tubes, replacers etc. Same goes for medkits and any other small storage items that are currently just general storage space. While you could still place these inside your back item, they wouldn’t just increase total storage space like they do now, rather let you carry specific things ‘at a discount’ of space only.

Fixing BoH bombing:

  • A Bluespace Backpack bomb would now immediately fire off a bluespace distortion in a 3x3 area centered on you. This would not destroy but instead make any people as well as anything on the floor in that area disappear. After one minute, the disappeared people would respawn as random entities from a set pool. This pool would contain entertaining, but not particularly powerful mobs, offering a novel mob playing experience without adminbus or xenobio. Note that detonating a Bluespace Backpack to play as a mob would still be seen as awful roleplay unless you’re a debtor or something. This makes the bomb less ridiculous while also being more kind to those who’d get hit by its cheapness.

Introducing alternatives and smaller variants, also fixing trashbag:

  • Adds the Bluespace Satchel. A belt item, it has the teleport interference, and has approximately half of the Bluespace Backpack’s capacity and cost. Note that this is still a lot because of the Backpack’s increased capacity. Its size would also be ‘carried’, meaning you couldn’t place it into bags. This would be available from the science lathe only.
  • Adds a new “tier” for storage items, “Compression”. Compression items require medium rarity materials similar to the current Trasbag of Holding. This means gold/plasma/uranium/titanium would be used. They’re also ‘carried’ size. A Compression Backpack would have half of a Bluespace Backpack’s capacity - the same as a Bluespace Satchel. Like the bluespace items, it could also hold large items. A Compression Satchel would have half of the Compression Backpack’s capacity, that is, a quarter of a Bluespace Backpack’s. In other words, not an overwhelming amount, though it would still be universal, and better than a belt. Compression items would not have teleport interference or bombing potential, and would be available in all lathes once researched.
  • Modifies trashbags. Removes the Trashbag of Holding and adds Compression/Bluespace Tashbags, with same capacity as their respective satchels. Removes stacking. Trashbags would also come in all lathes since it’d be a matter of preference. Only a few jobs actually benefit from being able to pick/dump things en-masse (which is the main benefit) but it’s better to leave it there for them instead of restricting. (For clarity sake, current trashbag of holding is limited to holding small items, but has ridiculous capacity even after the nerf, and no teleport interference. It’s still dumb. It’s a bullshit storage item but its actual use for collecting trash was made awful.)

Fixing research in line with the above:

  • Compression items to advanced bluespace research.
  • Bluespace items to miniaturized bluespace research.
  • Trashbag of Holding removed from sanitation research, Compression/Bluespace Tashbags now part of the two respective nodes above.

Fixing bad aliens:

  • The Bluespace Bodybag, going with its name and the new tiering, would now have teleport interference.
  • There’d be no Compression Bodybag.
  • That’s right ayys. Get good.

Addendum:

  • Adds a regular bag vendor to maps, so you can get a regular bag for like 50 credits if you lost your old one, or for whatever other purpose.

Funny:

  • Compression/Bluespace Pet Carrier.
  • I support removal of stacking bags/boxes and increased base space.
  • I do not support removal of stacking bags/boxes and increased base space.

0 voters

  • I support the proposed BoH bomb change, which is equally deadly but less destructive.
  • I do not support the proposed BoH bomb change.

0 voters

  • I support the addition of a new middle ‘tier’ of storage items (compression items).
  • I do not support the addition of compression items.

0 voters

  • I support the change to the Trashbag of Holding, which reduces its capacity but lets it carry most items (ie most trash).
  • I do not support the proposed change to the Trashbag of Holding, which currently has an outrageous capacity but only carries small items.

0 voters

  • I support making the bluespace bodybag interfere with teleportation (and thus ayys can’t abuse it)
  • I do not support making the bluespace bodybag interfere with teleportation

0 voters

3 Likes

The compression tier seems kind of odd, dont you reckon making it available everywhere would drain the station of resources rather quick?

Also, i wonder what will you do with putting a grenade-mousetrap in a box, putting syndicate items in a box, putting a beartrap in a box and so on. You dont wanna add a separate “illegal items” box that screams out to be opened, do you?

Otherwise i do agree that ALL bluespace items should have teleport interference. Including beakers, so as to be their " quirk"

The compression tier seems kind of odd, dont you reckon making it available everywhere would drain the station of resources rather quick?

No, not really. These materials are in abundance as long as miners exist, and the cost of a single item wouldn’t be that high. We can also currently spam the (much more broken) Trashbags of Holding willy nilly, the only reason we aren’t is that people aren’t aware of how busted the item is. Either way if the cost is similar it shouldn’t be an issue for these less-stupid items.

Also, i wonder what will you do with putting a grenade-mousetrap in a box, putting syndicate items in a box, putting a beartrap in a box and so on. You dont wanna add a separate “illegal items” box that screams out to be opened, do you?

Could just use bags instead. Like, regular bags/backpacks. People are as likely to check those out as they are boxes. That and grenades and mousetraps could just fit in all boxes since it’s a staple tactic.

It’s also funny to point out that illegal boxes exist already, color scheme and all, and some of these hold way more than a box ever should (try buying a 20 TC kit, it comes in a regular box and it’s overstuffed with illegal items). This has nothing to do with how boxes would work after the PR, it’s just very funny to point out.

No no no… I know that syndicate boxes exist, its just that i believe? … they arent available for crafting.

Also regular backpacks and satchels are a limited commodity, might aswell add them to vendors. They might already be there without me knowing though

They’re in some vendors. Botany has tons of them in hydrobes in particular (and can also produce them), they might also be in dorms. Adding a general purpose bag vendor seems fair though.

You can also craft bags from cloth, and you can get cloth by cutting gauze. These things aren’t obvious but they’re there.

No no no… I know that syndicate boxes exist, its just that i believe? … they arent available for crafting.

This seems fine though? There can be some interesting additions to the traitor toolkit with this, maybe a 1tc box that does hold illegal items but looks normal. That’s something to consider later though.

I don’t really feel for this.

Just given this, is weird. The box just holds tons of lights, logically since it can hold a lot of these lights, then why wouldn’t be able to hold similar items, same goes for a medkit. There shouldnt be some weird item economy based around matching items getting more storage space or vice versa. The sole point behind boxes and medkits hiding outer items is quite literally hiding other items.

This is boring. BOH bomb is essentially a fun end- tool at centcom, or in the case of antags wanting to die in a blaze of glory or honestly, even some creative usage of BOH regardless of the fact you’re gonna die is changed into an exceedingly boring venture.

It’s a bag of holding, it’s literally ripped straight from DND almost down to what happens when you put a BOH into a BOH. Rather than an explosion you just up the likelihood of becoming a beholder’s lunch. You can put other non-BOHs in it, because if it fits and doesn’t overload the bag then it’s perfectly fine, it’s also funny seeing what people have stored inside.

Why would I want this? I’m not saying the idea is bad, but I need you actually sell me on this being a good change. WHY would I want this, why would I want a Satchel of Holding over a BOH. Why would I not want to have multiple backpacks in a BOH, or items inside a box. You could say balance or it’s silly, but again I don’t think many players share a similar feeling.

Just given this, is weird. The box just holds tons of lights, logically since it can hold a lot of these lights, then why wouldn’t be able to hold similar items, same goes for a medkit. There shouldnt be some weird item economy based around matching items getting more storage space or vice versa. The sole point behind boxes and medkits hiding outer items is quite literally hiding other items.

Hiding other items (in boxes) is a pointless mechanic unless it’s a trap like what another guy pointed out. If an item is in your regular bag it is already invisible from a glance. If you’re expecting a box inside your bag to hide you from a search, you’re literally relying on the stupidity of whoever is searching you. I am not saying that’s necessarily a bad mechanic, but if most people searching you don’t fall for it, and the same thing is creating another bad mechanic (ie ridiculous amounts of item space) it’s not worth it. The fact that you can hide items in your clothes and boots, and the existence of the storage implant also help make this a stinker point.

This is boring. BOH bomb is essentially a fun end- tool at centcom, or in the case of antags wanting to die in a blaze of glory or honestly, even some creative usage of BOH regardless of the fact you’re gonna die is changed into an exceedingly boring venture.

it’s easily abusable, almost never done in game unless you’re a griefier, and demonstrates no skill for the person who’s performing the bombing. Altogether it’s badly designed. Why is it still here?

It’s a bag of holding, it’s literally ripped straight from DND almost down to what happens when you put a BOH into a BOH. Rather than an explosion you just up the likelihood of becoming a beholder’s lunch. You can put other non-BOHs in it, because if it fits and doesn’t overload the bag then it’s perfectly fine, it’s also funny seeing what people have stored inside.

None of this is a real argument. A DnD reference doesn’t even fit for what the item looks like. If you wanted to take that route, it’s worth pointing out that no one stacks bags inside BoH’s in DnD anyway, because it doesn’t have bag item slots, rather weight limit. What the proposed change does is let you use the BoH fully without being inconvenienced or having to perform pointless actions. That is all.

Why would I want this? I’m not saying the idea is bad, but I need you actually sell me on this being a good change. WHY would I want this, why would I want a Satchel of Holding over a BOH. Why would I not want to have multiple backpacks in a BOH, or items inside a box. You could say balance or it’s silly, but again I don’t think many players share a similar feeling.

Because right now we have the Trashbag of Holding, which is a stupidly overpowered (yet oddly, somewhat worthless for janitors) item that needs to be replaced with something reasonable. I stand firm that a widespread, easily available and properly balanced option is better than a crazy option that is only surviving due to not being known.

Trashbag of holding got nerfed though :thinking:

1 Like

I am well aware. It used to be ridiculous. Now it’s just overpowered. Go and test it out some time.

The trash bag of holding is printable in the service lathe so it can be used by the janitor
The trash bag of holding can barely do it’s original job now, if you ask me.

The trash bag of holding is printable in the service lathe so it can be used by the janitor
The trash bag of holding can barely do it’s original job now, if you ask me.

Exactly. It was nerfed to carry small items only, making it worthless for the janitor, but it still has an outrageous capacity (yes, even after the nerf. It used to be like 200, it is less now but still stupid) which you can fill with small items. Your post sounds like it is disagreeing with me but the point you’re making is something that I’m trying to adress with this specifically. (To be exact, compressed/bluespace trashbags from the op would have less space but be able to carry all items like they could before)

Again to which I say.
“Why would I want any of these changes?”
Why would I want to replace BS bodybags?
Why would I want to replace BOH which already have their own pros and cons.
Why would I want boxes nerfed when you say they’re only used for niche actions because it’s pointless?
Why is my DnD example not an argument? Nobody ever said you can’t put other bags inside a BOH.

Before, you could walk into the armory, click everything and yell morph. Everyone would believe you :trolleybus:

Bariss, random shit is often implemented that has no use or not even good
(E.G: The new crit system, which forces you to kill people instead of crit them because they can get up and tool box you mid crit)

The reasoning behind the changes was explained. Less clutter. Removal of broken mechanics, removal of badly-designed mechanics. Update of a terrible item. Etc.

It’s up to you to decide if you support it or not. As someone proposing this, I’m here to explain the reasoning, but it’s not up to me to sell you on it, and that would be a slimy thing to do anyway.

I legitimately can’t tell if you’re expecting me to tell you how to think, if you’re just a bad reader, or if you’re attempting to troll.

This is the one idea I like the most here probably (not saying the other ideas are bad). Satchels in general should fit in the belt, or at least Leave your back slot free for other items like shotguns or spears (not backpacks). It never made sense that a bag that sat on my waist would make me unable to sling a axe or shield on my back.

Because I functionally do not see these mechanics as clutter.
Boxes are simple items that store items at a specific size, which can fit inside a backpack.
A BOH is an item that is capable of fitting large items including other backpacks into them. Which conversely can all be filled to the brim with other items.
A trashbag of holding is designed to take garbage items which are usually small, like bullet casings, broken lights, and so forth into it.

What sounds like clutter to me is making boxes ONLY hold specific items to that specific box.
Adding new similar BOH items that just have slightly reduced capacity.
Creating an entirely new item definitions that apply only to niche items such as a bodybag or a trashbag.
For whatever reason nerfing BS Bodybags because of abductors

I don’t see a reason to overhaul the inventory system when it’s not even that complex to begin with. Sure certain items hold specific gear. Like belts only being able to hold tools, or specific equipment in case of SWAT/Military Belts but even then those belts hold an EXCEEDINGLY small number of items despite their function.

Most satchels are worn via a strap around the shoulder. You can get belt ones but they’re much much smaller than one that goes on your back/shoulders.

Because I functionally do not see these mechanics as clutter.
Boxes are simple items that store items at a specific size, which can fit inside a backpack.
A BOH is an item that is capable of fitting large items including other backpacks into them. Which conversely can all be filled to the brim with other items.

Iunno. I think that having to go through 4 bags inside your BoH and boxes inside those bags for optimal storage is overkill and annoying. Sure it’s functional but it’s not something I think people would consciously put in a game. Earlier i mentioned a weight limit, and such a thing would honestly be optimal for the game. We have something close, as item size is basically item weight, but stacking items lets us bypass this at the cost of a cluttered inventory.

A trashbag of holding is designed to take garbage items which are usually small, like bullet casings, broken lights, and so forth into it.

This was never the case, as much trash and leftover items were not small. Old trashbag worked properly but it also had 200 slots. When it was nerfed, its capacity was not nerfed enough, but it was limited to small items. Again, it sounds fine, just like BoH carrying bags inside sounds fine, but it’s not a good mechanic in the game, and that is what’s important.

Adding new similar BOH items that just have slightly reduced capacity.

No. The compression items have reduced capacity but they also don’t interfere with teleportation. You get to make the choice: Carry tons but be unable to teleport and vulnerable to crystals and such, or, carry less things but don’t get interferance.

In the end the reason to overhaul isn’t that it doesn’t work, but that it works in bad ways.

I’ve updated the poll to be more specific, i realized the OP has too many changes for one choice.

I absolutely do not like your proposed box change.
100% no.
The ont thing I do wish would be fixed in storage, is to make it so syringes with different contents don’t stack. Same with beakers and bottles.

TBOHs were already nerfed (Due to mainly i feel my fuckery on Golden.) so i dont think they need to change at all.

I support all but the removal of nested inventories honestly.