Problems with the detective conceptually

Make detective a borg. Problem solved.

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That is true for most games, but in a sandbox rp game it’s a bit different. Nearly every division has the capability to EASILY make lethal tools that can be used to validhunt or ruin a round on the station, but we’re all expected to roleplay and follow the rules. Detective isn’t any different. In bold near the top of the detective wiki page it says the revolver is only for self defense. In fact I just read what Frost said about making the detective a borg, but really, if we can expect borgs to follow their laws, we can expect detectives to follow the servers rules, SOP, and space law.

If anything, the problem stems from a lack of things to do other than play secoff, than having tools that are too strong.
I like the idea of detective having OP tools for self defense, as it gives them more freedom to go where they please, get in people’s faces, interrogate, etc … while have a deterrent to just being murdered.

On the note of not being against the rules to print forensic analyzers, sage has rule M3 Do your job, the third note of which reads: “Let people do their own jobs. If something is within the purview of another department, you are expected to engage with them rather than doing it yourself” printing a scanner as a secoff and using it to investigate crime scenes without engaging with the detective to have them do it first would be breaking this rule.

Some ideas for cool detective tools, although I never play it:
chameleon gear for undercover work, this could be taken further by giving the detective the ability to stealthily take a photo of someone, then forge a disguise to look like them later. Disguise yourself as a co-conspirator of your suspect, or someone they trust, to try to trick them into telling you all your plans. Get reamed out by the lawyer for entrapment. Ignore him as always.

Interrogation techniques: interesting to try to implement, but certain things could be added to give the player a big red text prompt to tell the truth. It could be inconsistent, players could be prompted to falsely confess, or told that they were able to persevere.
you tube watch?v=gWoPI-VoFV0 (Video is mindfield by vsauce, safe for work) something like the new lie detector they test in this video could work well with SS13. Get a player strapped to a machine, then the detective can put a photo in and the machine can tell if the player has seen that item before. I’m no coder, maybe that’s impossible to track in game code. Something like tagging objects when a player examines or holds them and remembering for 5 minutes?

Bugs would be an awesome addition, a small item, maybe only findable on successive examines, that can be stuck to certain things and transmits to a configurable frequency. Syndicate could get bugs too, and both sides could get bug detectors.
In the same vein, tracking beacons, acts like a forced suit sensor when put on someone’s clothes, or can follow an object.

I did like the idea someone said of retooling detective into sherlock holmes theme, especially if he gets a “discombobulate” combat technique where you ear box your opponent.

Another idea, if we REALLY want to make them harmless, is to give them something that functions similar to a bluespace extract absorbed by a Luminescent, where they can teleport back to their office.

Final idea, move them to Service and make them a private investigator. You’d still get the cool noir theme, but more RP opportunities when they’re positioned in a way where players can go directly to them. It also separated them from the security force in a meaningful way, which may get the idea across about not being a security officer, and the revolver being only for self defense. You could even flavour the revolver as being illegal, something the detective smuggled onto the station “just in case”, and have them face IC consequences for any use. If it really is self defense, it could get confiscated (and then begrudgingly returned when the station later goes to shit), there’s lots that could be done there RP-wise. If they shoot someone with it to “make an arrest” they would be arrested themselves, as a civilian with an illegal weapon dispensing vigilante justice.

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I love the Noir theme please don’t take it away.

The detective could use a lore rework entirely. If he was a representative from Spacepol with 0 authorization to be making arrests on Nanotrasen property it’d make more sense why he’s not acting like a seccie when he’s a part of security. Remove his lethal rounds entirely and restrict them to the lathe or give him a melee range personal defense taser. Very rarely have I ever gotten to cordon off and recreate a scene as a detective, usually I just get authorized to make arrests right away and wind up playing a less geared security officer that people get real real upset at after I arrest them. Maybe it would help if the forensic scanner searched the database on the fly rather than me having to find a security outpost or head back to my office, that’d make the detective a lot more useful in a pinch. Leaving the scene of a crime to check prints messes with the flow of roleplay and slows down the investigation process.

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This actually is a really good idea, it’d let det serve as some sort of hired private investigator instead of just a glorified sec officer. Of course this only applies to MRP since nobody gives a shit about det arresting on lrp anyways

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Don’t remove detective’s staple weapon.
Det shouldn’t get any nonlethals apart from pepperspray, stick and maybe flash It’s not his role to arrest people, which rubber/beanbag ammo lets you do. In my opinion lethal rounds discourage arresting and make you think before joining most of the brawls.

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MeetTheDetective

First step is the gun. This stops the shittery.

then come making forensics great. Bay forensics is robust and perhaps a better way to get forensics to be relegated to det instead of any secoff that prints scanners

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If the new disabler dna firing pin come thru, the coder can set det gun to only be usable at blue/red alert, maybe this will improve things

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One thought: is the sec detective a private investigator or a police inspector? Because one is mostly harmless and the other is a higher rank police.

There’s also a lot of sec who just gives the det or even the lawyer sec gear just so they can staff themselves more. It’s certainly breaking SoP but not that many people complain enough.

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If det could be a tot like brig phys… sec would hesitate to arm them properly.

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det tot would be very fun for the det but fuck awful for the victims. Det could fake prints by changing the print records on his console to get targets executed or imprisoned or whatever which would probably fuck det players over more than anything if it means sec cant trust them and would rather have an officer do their job

heres the kicker… tot det might want to go after other antags for gamer gear…

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detective is all good, its that the rounds are too quick and antags are too careless for him to be needed

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One thing I’ll admit, is that I do play the detective for the theme and being ‘the cool investigator with a revolver.’ As the det is now, I very much couldn’t play without it. There’d have to be a very big content overhaul to fill that void if it were to be removed. I also disagree about the baton: it is a wonderful, harmless tool that when effectively used, easily disarms dangerous people and gives you room to escape/turn the attack on the attacker without needing to stamcrit them and dominate the situation.

One thing I will disagree with now: ‘the gear being misused is a problem with the gear, not the player.’ It’s not, the revolver isn’t encouraging someone to go validhunt: the player is breaking server rules by falling into validhunt behavior rather than playing their role. The idea that they were ‘tempted’ by the revolver they begin with is shifting blame from the real issue: LRP mindset on MRP. The real problem being taken issue with is people using the revolver to hunt down and lethal criminals, breaking multiple rules in the process, and if these people who break the rules are dealt with and warned off of that behavior, it will not be an issue. I remember I had a big problem with misusing the bartender’s shotgun, but that wasn’t so much a fault of the gun as it was my mindset playing the bartender. I’m there to mix drinks and change lives, not gear up for the first opportunity to end them, and I changed my behavior on Sage when I realized what I was doing. Same goes for the det: you have a gun, you might need to use it to defend yourself, but in most situations, all you should do is investigate, patrol, and get info into security’s hands.

Although I disagree with the scanner being bad (clothes fibers and investigating off of them is personally a lot of fun for me, and prints being so easily identifiable encourages traitors to cover their tracks), I agree that chameleon gear for the detective would make for a lot of fun undercover investigating. Right now, the idea of a detective going undercover isn’t really possible. Yeah, you can wear laymen’s clothes, but your voice will always be the detective’s, making it pretty obvious you aren’t who you appear to be. An internal voice changer alone would let you assume a new identity, get a title change, work in a department doing busywork while watching your coworkers closely. What criminal is going to look any further than your clothes, ID, and voice? Not most. A chameleon ID and plastic surgery autosurgeon would be nice and convenient too, but realistically you could get a competent HOP and doctor to do that for you (but speaking personally, relying on an HOP to do their job competently is only nice on paper). If you really think the equipment set of the det is the problem, then I think providing them fun equipment to go undercover and do real investigations is the answer, not digging up the roots and starting fresh. Also, rubber .38 ammo at the seclathe, and making dets start with rubber ammo.

On a sidenote: all ballistic weapons should have printable rubber ammo, please.

-A detective main

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The real problem with detective is Admin’s not enforcing SOP rule breaks. There is absolutely no reason to follow SOP on MRP, when you can just break it at any time and Admin’s will defend you in the player reports for doing so.

This is why Detectives perform arrests, use lethals and generally act like Sec+ – when they are called out, admins refuse to enforce rules (from my experience anyway).

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SOP is nigh un-enforceable because the only person that is able to contact Central Command is solely the Captain, all other servers that have SOP have a dedicated role like An IAA/NT Rep that reports SOP breaks to Central Command via faxes.

SOP are in-game guidelines and I don’t think they should be punished via OOC admin action for breaking them.

via faxes

We are 1000 years in the future, not the past.

SOP are in-game guidelines and I don’t think they should be punished via OOC admin action for breaking them.

Except, when sec breaks them, they can remove a player from the round for 5~10 minutes, more if the shitsec gulags you for 500 points.

Multiple servers run a cassette futurism vibe. Goon has rotary phones, for example.

I seriously am starting to consider whether or not we should whitelist HoS and tell these people they must handle SOP to the letter or lose it.

Maybe even most of Sec should be whitelisted with heavy expectation to follow SOP hardcore…

We could add Magistrate alla paradise.

Or whitelist Captain. Tired of so many captains validhunting with HoS, as SM delams cause CE is building tesla in cargo.

Faxes are used on Servers because paperwork allows for easy and pretty formating.