Pannacotta banned by RukoFamicom

CKEY:
Pannacotta

Admin’s CKEY:
RukoFamicom

Is this for both servers or just one? If so, which one:
One

Which server did the ban happen on?
MRP, BeeStation Sage

Ban Type:
Global ban

Ban Length:
Permanent

Ban Date (MM/DD/YYYY):
15/06/2021

Round ID:
30532

Ban Reason:
Shitsec as an officer leading into confusion with the captain which they chose to over-escalate via immediate mutiny against the captain, calling for their head. Unreasonable in ticket, Appeal on the forums when you’ve had time to cool down a bit.

Appeal Reason:
Ban reason slander, one sidedness of admin team, unjust judgement.

Additional Information:
Well, basically captain was too left mouse button click pixel character happy because I was handling unruly inmate symmetrically to their behavior. They called me out on felinid racism (???) despite having a witness in form of a lawyer that saw forementioned inmate being an animal. Note the captain was a felinid too.

Of course, they assumed me calling them animal for their race, just as I was assumed of mutiny in the ban reason, by just saying how captain head should fall from their neck as there is little goin on in it. I did not assault captain in any way despite having occasions to do it, as for I was occupied with carrying out my duties, captain was not.

I’m called shitsec in ban reason for what reason exactly?
For trying to reason with the criminal verbally trough 70% of the chase and his incarceration?
Or maybe because captain said: “Instead of what you’re trying to pin him for because he-”? See that? Captain for some reason, I do not understand, automatically went for: “you are pinning stuff on them”

Or maybe because captain was more interested in assistant losing his hat to a different sec officer more than the arrested assisant deeds?
Or maybe because captain listened explicitly to assistant shouts and lawyer claims instead of me?
I hope I’ll find out.

I told you in the ahelp, I understand your side of what happened. We both know what Everett did, but the captain does not. This is the first thing they see, say and get in response:

Captain is Felinid, Captain sees you are dealing with felinid. Captain assumes you’re being racist, especially considering the only thing over comms so far was the minor crime of stealing Sunglasses.

You opened an ahelp to complain about the captain during this. I got the captain’s side of the story and it made sense for an IC conflict to arise given their limited scope of knowledge on the situation and your poor choice of words.

Additional logs of your extremely hostile interactions with the captain. Yes, I know you didn't attack them, you're still calling for your boss' head over a minor dispute.



The ahelp with you in which I decided to move the discussion here


I await some outside opinions on the matter as well as your input on the logs.

About the logs after “You opened an ahelp to complain about the captain during this. I got the captain’s side of the story and it made sense for an IC conflict to arise given their limited scope of knowledge on the situation and your poor choice of words.”

Please notice how:

Amadeus keeps piling on him ridiculous charges […] i brig everett for the crimes he HAS committed.

How were my charges ridiculous? The assistant DID everything I stated, for some reason captain brands it ridiculous and completely ignores them (???)

Captain brigs assistant for crimes he HAS commited. So, captain can in some way tell which crimes people did or did not commit? Captain did NOT see trespass and stealing of sunglasses, just as he did NOT see me chasing the assistant, getting assaulted in the meantime and getting exposed to vacuum of space in very gamey way. Yet captain chooses in some magical way to brand few of them true and few of them ridiculous? How come, how?

After finding everett, returning his hat, and appraising him of the situatuin, i go do something else for a bit and find amadeus accosting everett AGAIN in the hallway.

So the captain probably didn’t see the arrest warrant on him. So the captain probably was completely oblivious to the situation that followed THEM letting the assistant out of the cell for reasons unknown, the assistant then vandalising the interrogation room, assaulting me, stealing my stuff and resisting arrest all in his animal-like fashion.

I was not involved in the round, so I would like to state this as a neutral party.

I don’t think the phrasing ‘mutiny’ is appropriate. I feel as though mutiny entails an attempted or successful overthrow enough that it starts to reach into ‘self-antag’ jurisdiction.

I would just put it as disobeying a superior when he pursued the target.

That’s just me though.

:man_shrugging:t6:

This situation seems like a mix of overescalation with the initial misunderstanding between cap and Ginga, along with the aforementioned bad roleplay.

Appeal reason not valid. This isn’t slander. This is cold, hard truth.

Considering that we can ban people for low RP and quality control on Sage very easily allow me to voice the opinion of Nanotrasen HR: “We value that you may have put in hard work on research stations so far, but in light of recent events we see no other course of action but to terminate your contract.”

As for RKz’s comment, I personally think that mutiny, or at least threat of mutiny, was at hand here. In addition to dereliction of duty. Depending on the exact context of the situation and how far this tirade against the captain actually went it could be easily seen as inciting a riot (on step down from mutiny) as well. At a bare minimum this isn’t acceptable from security in any way, shape, or form.

Sure, you can call the cap an idiot, but if you threaten to chop your CO’s head off they’ll have yours on a platter.

My bottom line opinion: Keep it. Golden might be okay-ish for them, but defo a perma global sec ban.

That opinion all being said, mercy is at Ruko’s discretion given your low hours and lack of note history.

Again, taking into account their first impression of the situation: You are a racist treating a prisoner poorly just because they are an “animal” as you said it. “Set Everett to Arrest for stealing sunglasses” is the only thing they are aware of at any point.

There was never any attempt to clarify the situation either - you immediately sought my help because the captain isn’t a magical psychic.



I’m willing to back down on mutiny if others agree - In my mind if someone is acting as shown and seriously talking about the beheading of the captain of the station… it’s pretty close to me.

It is a slander. I did nothing shitsec’ish.

I don’t intend to make any part of this permanent right now - I just want to reach some common ground and that wasn’t happening in the round. This whole thing is an IC conflict that got blown way out of proportion by one side to me.

If it still doesn’t happen at all, then yeah I guess it’ll stick as a Sage/Sec Perma.

1 Like

Other than sedition. As a sec officer. No, I still don’t think it’s slandr.

Wrong, I did tell captain all the assistant did when we were in front of brig. Then captain branded some of the things true, some ridiculous and acted on this.

And this IS the reason for all that happened. If captain was in any way willing to clarify the situation he would have taken me and the assistant into a secluded location to talk about what happened, yet all they did was two second judgement in place and atmosphere utterly not inteded for it. I had never had this trouble earlier, I brought the criminals to brig, HOS or warden heard me out and told me the sentence. Smooth and easy.

“Jesus fucking christ cap i’ma fucking behead you”
“there ain’t much going on in your head so why would you mind losing it you crazy fucking cocksucker”

These two lines alone kinda prove my point that Sage (and security) are not for you. Your immediate response to your superior asking you what you’re doing is to reply with “stripping an animal” in reference to another player, and when they stop you you launch into a tirade of the above styled quotes.

Had you maybe said something more becoming of a security officer and treated other players with the respect you seem to think you are entitled to then perhaps you wouldn’t have even had any problem with the captain in the first place.

2 Likes

I stand tall on the thing I said, all that happened IS because of captain. Captain that resorted to physical violence while I sticked to verbal one. I can’t see how else I could respond to person with no clear intention on acting just.

I was Victoria Violet in this round. Here’s an account of events from my perspective- There’s already my side in one of Ruko’s posts, but it was lacking in detail due to being in the middle of a round.

I’m walking around the station not doing anything in particular when I see two officers arresting Everett Garrison in the hallway outside of HoP’s office. They seem unusually aggressive, so I ask what he did, and they tell me Everett stole a pair of advanced shades. I follow them to the brig, and they start rattling off a bunch of charges (breaking and entry, theft, assault) and my shitsec senses start tingling.

When one of them steals Everett’s hat and runs off (while disobeying my orders to return it), I brig him for the crimes we have proof for and are the most likely to be true- trespass and petty theft. While shoving CAN be considered assault, intent is important- It’s the difference between someone shoving you against a wall to get you to leave them alone, or someone shoving you against a wall to bash your brains out with a toolbox. Neither of these officers’ brains look very bashed to me. In either case, my decision was hasty, because I just witnessed an officer commit a crime (petty theft) and now I have to go chase him down for stealing from a prisoner.

Feel free to criticize me for being soft- I tend to be more lenient as HoS/Captain to try and maintain goodwill with the crew, as nobody likes a hardass, even though that’s resulted in me letting genuine bad guys go a couple times. If you think I’m being lenient, though, bring it up in-character in a way that isn’t shouting at me for being stupid, or I’m not going to listen to you! Even if you’re right, nobody listens to you if you’re a dick!

In any case, I go get Everett’s hat from the officer that stole it and come back to brig to see Amadeus stripping him and calling him an animal. When I ask for an explanation and Amadeus doubles down, I interpret it as racism against felinids and decide this guy’s being shitsec and this is clearly unjust harassment. I don’t know what happened between you and Everett in that cell, which is true, but I wasn’t about to let shitsec brig someone for extremely stupid reasons, and that’s in my right as a captain- I’d understand your reaction if you were HoS or if I was a fellow secoff, but in this situation, i am your commanding officer and you are expected to follow orders. “If cap is doing something stupid I’m not going to play along” should apply to something like building a Tesla engine in the bar with inadequate security, or if the captain is threatening mutiny against CentComm.

After that scuffle (Which I should mention, at no point did I use lethal force), I leave brig, announce that the two offending officers are clearly unfit for duty, and at that point you call for my head. I go get my egun because you’ve threatened violence against me and I have no reason to believe you won’t follow through.

I find you in the hallway accosting Everett again and haul you in to be demoted, like I said I would. Your incredulous and condescending attitude throughout the entire conversation didn’t really help- Again, I’d understand if I was a fellow secoff, but talking that way to a superior officer in the military would get you worse than demoted. Frankly, I think I was incredibly even-handed and patient with you and you’re lucky you didn’t get thrown in perma next to the guy who got nuggeted.

Boasting in LOOC that “you’re gonna get taken down so hard for this” is also kind of a bad look when the captain is in the middle of demoting you. Just saying.

I’d like to see logs verifying this, because it could, depending on time, be interpreted as a threat of administrative intervention, which falls against R2.8

Also well said. I think this is the overall point that people are trying to make.

2 Likes

I follow them to the brig, and they start rattling off a bunch of charges (breaking and entry, theft, assault) and my shitsec senses start tingling.

See? That is the main problem, before even one would consider assuming things, you are already assuming.

Do you know why you didn’t consider stuff being said an assault? Becaue lawyer said I was merely shoved. Which I was not. I was grabbed aggresively and thrown against an object which caused harm, and that IS an assault. And you listened to lawyer on this one, not even asking if they were a witness. So I take it anyone coud come in and say “It was Amadeus who took the sunglassses and he only wants to brig people.” and you’d comply.

Not for a SPLIT second you went "Well, Amadeus says one thing, lawyer/assistant says the other, maybe I should investigate and hear everyone out. No, you went “Tresspassing and resisting arrest.”

Hell, it gets even better. Later, as I you were holding me after I was stripping the inmate you said:

Victoria Violet meows, “You tried to give an assistant the biggest possible sentence for a minor crime.”

When? How? When did I say ANYTHING about doing that? Yet another example of assuming things.

So we are playing on emotions here now or what? I have no interest in being nice towards people who do not want me to be nice to them. Somebody on a position of a captain even considering emotions is a joke, I’m having a hard time processing this thought.

hi, me everett here.
I was completely fine with leaving this as an IC conflict
My pride was definitely hurt by you calling me an animal and stripping me, but I was content to leave this as an IC conflict.

I didn’t see the shit that happened between you and the captain, though. I don’t really know what to say or feel about that, and I feel like it’s best left up to the admins.
Honestly, I was surprised to see you demoted and felt a bit bad. While the interaction did leave a sour taste in my mouth for the rest of the round, I was still able to find some friends and chill.

As for what I actually did:
Used jaws of life to pry open the firing range door to get welding protection - nobody ever uses or misses the firing range sunglasses anyways. You saw me, I said hello, you said you were gonna chase me down and beat my ass or something like that, I don’t remember specifics.
You chased me, I eventually shook you off my trail and I went to the brig to see if I could find another officer to talk to about the situation, and then you found me again. I grabbed you aggressively, throwing you against a wall to stun you and escape. You eventually caught up to me and restrained me with the help of several uninvolved persons in the hall - HoP used their telebaton, mime shoved me, and a few others tried to join in. You then took me to the brig.

The mime was trying to take my hat from me the whole time. Once we got to the brig, another officer kept trying to take my hat, and eventually threw a cone at me (which did infact wound me, while it was a minor wound, you were pressing charges against me for minorly wounding you with the wallstun. You not doing anything about the officer throwing a blunt object directly at my head is a bit hypocritical. Not to mention the theft of the hat.) to knock my hat off. This immediately made me get shitsec vibes and I just wanted to escape before you guys lost even more of my shit (I still never recovered all of my items that round, but nothing important was lost.)

Hence the commotion in the brig. I was trying to escape without seriously hurting you. Stunning you and using your ID to escape, yes, but not making you lose anything critical to the round. You then fullstripped me and called me an animaI. After this, the captain was trying to reprimand you while I was trying to escape, giving me the opportunity to get out of the cell. I managed to get the AI’s attention on the intercom and it bolted me in the interrogation room, giving me time to resist out of my cuffs, and you later showed up to arrest me, at which point I stole your shoes and slipped you over some shards, moving into the security office, disposaling myself, and escaping.

The Captain came to me in disposals and said the situation was being handled. At this point, security had stolen my hat, tossed my items all over the place, called me an animal and stripped me naked, so I was on edge. I listened to the captain, however, since I was pretty much out of options anyways. so I dropped the stunbaton I stole during my escape and left cargo. (I was almost completely naked except for the shoes I stole from you.) I then found the lawyer in the halls and they returned some of my items, helping me get dressed again. I then decided to go to the brig to see if I could find an officer or someone to help me fix the situation, at which point you said ‘eyyy’ and pulled out your stunbaton, so I ran and tried to hide in a plant, at which point the captain intercepted you. That was my last interaction with you. I later saw you roaming the halls with nothing but a jumpsuit and PDA on, so I assumed you got demoted. I felt the whole situation was IC, which is why I didn’t adminhelp at any time.

tl;dr I experienced this as an IC conflict but I didn’t know the other side of the story. I just wanted to get my side of the story out there and explain some of my actions. I don’t know if I would be fine with you getting an unban given all the shit that happened between you and captain, but it just seems like you needed to take a break and cool down, which didn’t happen. I would be willing to give you a second chance for sure, since you don’t seem like a griefer intent on ruining other people’s rounds, you just got worked up about the situation.

@Pannacotta At the end of the day I’m not an admin and I don’t think I would be a good admin, it’s their call to make and not mine.

1 Like

Complain at me all you want for my intuitive judgement being wrong, or for me jumping to a conclusion; That’s a good reason for an in-character conflict to happen. What you’re on trial for here is your over-escalation to making threats on the Captain’s life as a security officer and generally being a dick. There’s no reason a Captain would ever hear that from one of their officers and say “This is completely acceptable behavior from one of my subordinates.” Especially when the crime that instigated all of this was the theft of a damn pair of shades.

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