Title: NorfFC banned from Security Roles for 3 Days And Major-Noted by GaySatan
CKEY:
NorfFC
Admin’s CKEY:
GaySatan
Ban Type:
Job Ban & Major Note
Ban Length:
3 Days
Ban Date (YYYY/MM/DD/):
2022/08/25
Round ID:
40092
Ban Reason:
Tried to jail someone for upwards of thirty minutes, and then proceeded to argue with me in ahelp about the specific text in the space law wiki that says you can’t stack offenses. very argumentative in ticket. take this time to look over the sec rules / space law.
Appeal Reason:
First off, I shall give some clarity to the Ban Reason, and hopefully give a more accurate summary than GaySatan, who was very likely under pressure from the players to restart the round (The admin inquiry began near the end of the round, and was discussed for a while between me and the attending Moderator), and appears to have accidentally left some omitted details that convey the situation inaccurately, though I again must state that the Moderator is not to held at fault for this.
‘Tried to Jail someone for upwards thirty minutes’
It was actually worse (from the perspective of GaySatan) than this, as I held the offender, Kane Semenov’ in detainment for 25 minutes, due to the difficulties of cross-examining his testimony with that of the AI, and also because we received our first hard evidence that he was a traitor around 10-15 minutes into his detainment under Theft, relating to his possession of the CE’s headset, as well as for interrogation under Murder charges( This is because he was seen exiting an airlock by the AI shortly after the CE, Milli, was murdered by a person who we knew at the time by the alias ‘Michael Jackson’, and the AI testified that he was the only one seen exiting the area of the crime, indicating agent card usage). I was aiming for a 10 minute prison sentence for Theft, initially, but once the Detective came across a Supermatter Theft Kit in maints, along with an Agent ID assigned to Kane Semenov in close prximity, that I elevated the charges to, being a Hostile Agent (10 minutes), Committing Hostile Activity (15 minutes), Murder (15 minutes), and Theft (10 minutes), which of course I was going to reduce by the amount of time Kane had been detained.
‘and then proceeded to argue with me in ahelp about the specific text in the space law wiki that says you can’t stack offenses.’
Apologies for the massive amount of text that will follow, but I believe that the contents will allow the appealing admin to forgive the verbosity.
Here is the conversation I had with GaySatan(along with post-event commentary in bold), in full.
PM to-Admins: Yo, is the maximum sentence 15 minutes even if you commit multiple major offences that would push it way above that limit?
We contacted each other almost simulataneously
– Administrator private message –
Admin PM from-GaySatan: hey… got a minute?
Click on the administrator’s name to reply.
PM to-Admins: Oh shoot, speak of the uh… devil
PM to-Admins: Yeah, sure
– Administrator private message –
Admin PM from-GaySatan: yes. they don’t stack. you charge for the highest offense and just that offense.
Click on the administrator’s name to reply.
– Administrator private message –
Admin PM from-GaySatan: unless it’s the same offense repeated
Click on the administrator’s name to reply.
– Administrator private message –
Admin PM from-GaySatan: then you can maybe add a minute or two. but you should never be holding someone in the brig for like- thirty minutes unless they’re in perma
Click on the administrator’s name to reply.
PM to-Admins: I’m not really that perceptive, is there a clause in the wiki, which I use for administering sentences, which states that so I can CTRL+F it?
PM to-Admins: Is the wiki a reliable source for Space Law?
The relatively small scale of BeeStation’s playerbase may incline wiki articles to be less accurate and less likely to be updated accordingly to the new guidelines for Security
Bluespace Harvester Highscore: 0
Rebooting World in 1 minute and 30 seconds. Round ended.
– Administrator private message –
Admin PM from-GaySatan: the wiki is a reliable source for the law. the rule is just. you can only charge for the highest offense. and they don’t stack. i don’t… know where it says that exactly
Click on the administrator’s name to reply.
Reboot was cancelled by an admin.
PM to-Admins: I feel like a clause in regards to the max sentence, especially when it makes a difference of somebody being brigged for 50 or 15 minutes, should be considered high priority and made explicit in the wiki.
– Administrator private message –
Admin PM from-GaySatan: it’s under “interpretation of the law” second to last paragraph
Click on the administrator’s name to reply.
PM to-Admins: Checking right now
PM to-Admins: This one? ‘For certain crimes, the accused’s intent is important. The difference between High Negligence and Murder can be very hard to ascertain, and, when in doubt, you should default to the less serious crime. It is important to note though, that Assault and Aggravated Assault are mutually exclusive. You cannot be charged with Assault and Aggravated Assault from the same crime as the intent of each is different. Pay careful attention to the requirements of each law and select the one that best fits the crime when deciding sentence.’
This was my mistake, I read it as ‘second paragraph’
– Administrator private message –
Admin PM from-GaySatan: “In the event the convict has been found guilty of multiple crimes the security officer should assign the sentence appropriate to the highest crime committed. This means if someone is guilty of assault and inciting a riot, the prisoner should be confined for a major crime sentence.”
Click on the administrator’s name to reply.
PM to-Admins: I found it, but I believe I’ll be able to appeal this pretty easily as this clause does not explicitly refer to multiple sentences of the same severity, which I what Kane was being charged for.
I should have stated here that Kane was being charged for Two Major Crimes and Two Minor Crimes, I admit fault here
Battle Royale: Clearing world mobs.
PM to-Admins: You can restart the server if you want, I can appeal this on forums.
Battle Royale: STARTING IN 5 SECONDS.
Battle Royale: Starting game.
A 30 second grace period has been established. Good luck.
WARNING: YOU WILL BE GIBBED IF YOU LEAVE THE STATION Z-LEVEL!
16 people remain…
– Administrator private message –
Admin PM from-GaySatan: i mean. i haven’t even noted you yet. there’s nothing to appeal here yet. but also you can’t stack sentecing. the most you can do is elevated sentencing which just lets you up the level of the crime, and that needs captain or hos approval.
I believed that you perceived the offence I committed as severe enough to administer a note, so I operated under that assumption
Click on the administrator’s name to reply.
PM to-Admins: It seems that the Space Law Guide is the most to blame for this, albiet I’ll admin fault for not checking with you when the Detective first made the objection that the max sentence is only 15 minutes
PM to-Admins: admit*, not admin
PM to-Admins: Also, I should point out that the Devil is canonically bisexual 
I made this off-hand joke comment in a way of ending the conservation, which I believed to be cordial, on a light note. Also, for those who might perceive this as GaySatan increasing the ban/note severity in response to the last comment, the rather lengthy ban summary a couple seconds after I sent that, meaning that he couldn’t have reacted to my comment that quickly, even if he had percieved it as a slight, which I didn’t intend for it to be at all
You have been banned by GaySatan from Roles: Head of Security, Warden, Detective, Security Officer, Deputy.
Reason: three day sec ban. tried to jail someone for upwards of thirty minutes, and then proceeded to argue with me in ahelp about the specific text in the space law wiki that says you can’t stack offenses. very argumentative in ticket. take this time to look over the sec rules / space law.
This ban is temporary, it will be removed in 3 days. This ban applies to all of our servers. The round ID is 40092.
To appeal this ban go to Game Ban Appeals - BeeStation
Your ticket has been resolved by an admin. The Adminhelp verb will be returned to you shortly.
Rebooting World in 1 minute and 30 seconds. Round ended.
End of transcript
I should note that any contention I had was directed at the poor clarity given by the Space Law article. I was not being argumentative for the sake of badgering the person delivering punishment onto me, but I was criticising the source that I was drawing from in response to his statement, which I believed due his authority generally overruling whats written in the wiki, that sentences cannot be stacked. I apologise if I caused any offence by my contentions, but I was facing the prospect of getting a possible greater punishment, such as a server ban, than I got, and I feel it is right to add my point of view and context whenever I feel it is needed in order to make a just decision.
I request that my note be downgraded in severity, and my 3-day ban from Security to be annulled, as I believe that I conducted myself well in regards to the acting on the guidelines information from the Space Law wiki article, which I considered to be the definite document on legal matters aboard the station, though one may attach fault to me for not dropping the Theft and Hostile Agent charges, where I should have acted solely on the Murder and Hostile Activity charges, even though all 4 crimes I charged him with were, I understood to be, separate.
Additional Information:
You are free to ask me for context or a response to additional inquiries that may arise as a result from perusing the logs of the round, or from the transcript of the discussion I had with GaySatan, or really any part of this ban appeal.
I look forward to hearing back from you 