We had a round, where a dragon was slain and an option was offered, to revive it using the Lazarus. The Lazarus states in the description, that it makes the animal Friendly to the user. Upon the dragon being revived, the dragon in LOOC said, that it doesn’t state nowhere on their side and they went mayhem on the crew for revenge.
This should be communicated better, to the Lazarus revived creature, or the description of the Lazarus should be changed, to (Revives an animal)
This is an actual bug. Lazarus does not make mobs loyal at all. Go revive a grub and watch it tunnel away for example (other mobs will just kill you).
Been that way for ages.
You also can’t ride lasso’d goliaths btw.
pretty sure simplemobs wont attack you… Ive seen people laz the xeno queen mobs to bring them to station… goli should be the same, doesnt work on megas tho?
Could just be a case where it was only intended for simplemobs so datums were never set up for players
Seems it just disables the AI and tells the ghost that it got revived
Updating the description makes more sense than giving miners loyal, sentient minions beyond what they already have access to. (Minebots are quite good if you supply them with the variety of upgrades they can use beyond simply what is in the machine. You can upgrade their PKA and give them a sonic jackhammer in addition to the upgrade boards in the vendor)
Even against non-sentient mobs, it doesn’t actually make them loyal in any sense of the word, it simply makes them ignore you. They don’t fight for you, defend you or actually act loyal in any way, just aloof.
Nobody takes mining bot spawns though
As for the mobs, non-hostile stuff was neat. Still havnt gotten a warden to keep a spitter xeno inside the brig showers to scare the piss out of prisoners
Yup true for the goliaths even cows and dolphins, i have an Issue open since November but iirc the bug it’s a little older (I think this was caused when Bacon removed the mindshield lasso and holopara because they were broken, holopara was fixed but lasso remained gonezo)
Beyond stealing a xenobio guy’s mobs or a dragon’s carps, “miner minions” isn’t really a thing since it doesn’t work on lavaland elites, megafauna, spiders, swarmers, etc.
Having the niche of reviving carps/dragon is basically the only special thing it has, and I previously remarked that the dragon feels like the only antagonist that actually relates to miners to begin with (they’re suited to fight it with jump boots and fireproof armor, and it can be crushed, for one).
Now, whether you agree miners should have a relevant antagonist is another question, but if chaplain can have heretics and cults, then why not? The main thing I’m saying is that lazarus was always extremely limited, now it’s just also broken.
This is how lazarus has always been, it has not been changed. It never sent a message requiring loyalty in player controlled mobs, it’s just up to the discretion of the player.
since it doesn’t work on lavaland elites, megafauna, spiders, swarmers, etc.
It does work on spiders. They are also not loyal to you afterwards. The fact it works on space dragons is a provable bug:
Until the space dragon rework it didn’t work on them either because they WERE megafauna. The fact it does is a bug that just hasn’t caused enough issues to warrant fixing. If the lazarus were to force the extremely powerful space dragon to be loyal, it would very suddenly warrant fixing.
None of this is to say the item and its function or intended function can’t change, but forcing loyalty on already sentient mobs is a dealbreaker while it still affects space dragons. This would also make it a permanent “brainwash” item for diona which are intended to be possible to revive with Lazarus.
It would probably be fine for spiders given they’re on the very bottom of the power curve, but it’s hard to say without seeing it. Spiders frequently got out of control when they were an antag item.
Here’s my suggestions (and what I’m willing to code)
#1) Go back to the original function (pre-2014) of lazarus injector - revived mobs lose their current faction(s) and gain the player faction meaning that anything aggressive to players are now aggressive to the mob, and the mob is now aggressive to everything other than the player which revived them. Somewhat loyal and somewhat useful, but not necessarily easy to control, they still do their own thing. Player controlled mobs are told who revived them and explicitly told they are not required to be loyal as they currently are.
#2) Keep the item as-is, but update the description since they are not actually loyal at all.
#3) Add special code to the lazarus so that sentient mobs are slaved to the person who revived them brainwashing style, but add diona nymphs and space dragons to the exclusion list removing the only existing way to revive a dead diona from the game. This would mean they will go back to almost never being useful for already sentient mobs.
This is how lazarus has always been, it has not been changed. It never sent a message requiring loyalty in player controlled mobs, it’s just up to the discretion of the player.
You seem to have misunderstood. This is not what I am talking about.
What lazarus did is revive simplemobs and make them stop attacking crew.
What it does currently is revive them with original behavior intact, breaking its purpose somewhat, basically limiting it to harmless mobs only. I do not know when or why this was done.
Now, what you derive from the former is up to you, but what a dragon does after revival is not what I’m talking about here.
It does work on spiders. They are also not loyal to you afterwards. The fact it works on space dragons is a provable bug:
It does not. Again, I am talking about sentient spiders, hence me listing them along other sentient mobs. Sure, it works on regular spiders, but it’s not what I was discussing. (Do note that I last tested this quite a bit ago, but I recall completely that it failed.)
If the lazarus were to force the extremely powerful space dragon to be loyal, it would very suddenly warrant fixing.
On one hand, I disagree on a philosophical level, but I also know full well that people would use the dragon to ruin the rounds of whatever spawns/threatens the station next, so I get it, it’s kinda mandatory… Removing revival itself is ew, though.
Go back to the original function of lazarus injector…player controlled mobs are told who revived them and explicitly told they are not required to be loyal as they currently are.
Perfect.
Keep the item as-is
I still do not understand why it was changed, nor why anyone would want this. I am not a fan of gutted features in general and would be more in favor of complete removal in this case, considering its only use would be reviving ian every 10 rounds.
Add special code to the lazarus so that sentient mobs are slaved to the person who revived them brainwashing style, but add diona nymphs and space dragons to the exclusion list
Enslave-lazarus is cool, but I cannot help but realize that miners do not actually have a use for enslaved mobs beyond playing a gimmick. Further, lavaland mob enslavement is already available through the primal crafting lasso. Instead of tying this to lazarus, add a way for us to learn the lasso recipe (tendril drop? also to clarify i do not include the drake lasso in this suggestion), since you can actually ride a watcher at least.
A more powerful version of an enslavement lazarus could be a traitor miner item, though. Excluding diona and dragon from anything that enslaves is mandatory for reasons already stated above.
Well, I found the responsible PR and I’m the one who merged it not realizing that was a side-effect of what it was trying to do, so I concede they have actually be changed and the description is wildly wrong.
I’ll do something about it in the coming days when I have time. Lots of things I’m piling up on my plate while I don’t though.
Only way to make even a simple mob loyal is to EMP the lazuros injector I think, EMPing the injector, then using it, will make it hostile to everyone BUT you
