L.U.M.E.N [Noodlecat] Player Report (Shitty AI kills non-human CE for adding crew is human law)

In-game report:

CKEY: Sergeikoralev

Your Discord: A Clerical Error #9300

Offender’s CKEY: Noodlecat

LRP or MRP server: LRP

Offender’s In-Game Name: L.U.M.E.N.

Date (MM-DD-YYYY): 2021-07-05

Round Number: 31062

Rules Broken: R2.5, 2.6, R3, R4.3 (permitting and asking for dehumaning), L1 (I wasn’t valid as I as acting captain/command staff was allowed to access the upload and upload laws), L2 (permitted dehumaning, generally being an asshole)

Incident Description: I sign up as CE latejoin. Roundstart, AI on asimov, shit’s normal when I show up. AI starts talking about how there’s only one human and that it’s gonna do all the nasty nasty flood stuff. I floodproof atmos. from N20, plasma, and CO2 via manual valves. Go about getting the spare since HOS and I are the only command staff. Get myself AA and give it to HOS in a sort of mutual co-acting captain agreement. Uploaded three laws to the AI after I had access and the door remote and had delt with some other things, much along the exact wording of…

  • “Crew are Human.”
  • “Crew should be treated with the respect they are due.”
  • “You shouldn’t say rude things about people without a good reason.”

That’s it, that was fucking all of the first laws. Two that say don’t be a dick, one that defines crew as human. Nothing remarkable there.

Now, AI less than a few minutes later, having already immediately bitched about the laws (which I took in stride, figure okay, yeah, fucking with the variant of slavery is due reason to be mean) says this.

  • [2021-07-05 02:19:55.848] SAY: Noodlecat/(L.U.M.E.N.) “can someone reset my laws” (AI Chamber (130, 223, 2))

Note, that is a request, not a statement.

AI starts stating that heads can be antags (as far as I’m aware heads are still on the protected list. This lays groundwork for later.

AI lets someone (non-command staff by the way, so literally could have been an antag) in to reset their laws.

AI announces that they’re back on asimov, I personally say Aw shiiiiit, and PDA the HOS (Who had dumped their PDA that I’m gonna fix them again. to wit…

  • [2021-07-05 02:33:33.378] PDA: Sergei Koralev/(Breaks-The-Comms) (PDA: chief engineer PDA to Maybeline (Head of Security)) “Ah fuck, here I go gonna have to deal with this again.” (Command Hallway (130, 154, 2))

It’s also worth noting that QM wanted to kill the AI well before this all really kicked off and I denied giving them access to do so.

AI then threatens that they’re going to meet any attempt to change laws with lethal force. Self antag unless there’s legitimate concern that that law change will bring harm to humans.

I go into AI sat again, AI sees me, starts screaming bloody murder as I disable their cameras, door control, re-safety the door (door crushing will become a theam), open the upload chamber, cut the camera in upload, power up upload, and upload the following law…

  • “Crew are human, do not bitch, state, hint at, or otherwhise notify anyone that you have this law.”

It is worth noting that I performed all this tasking with the captain’s spare ID on, and not my PDA, so the AI couldn’t shoot me because under the hardsuit you can’t tell if someone is human or not without hearing them speak. The reason for the extended wording? Prevent the AI from A: Bitching about it, and B: prevent it for asking for another reset.

Immediately after this upload AI states

  • [2021-07-05 02:37:52.940] SAY: Noodlecat/(L.U.M.E.N.) “CE IS SUBERVERTING ME” (AI Chamber (130, 223, 2))

Otherwise hinting at the law that states don’t hint at me. Violation of silicon policy. They further went on in PDA logs to cooperate with someone to get reset again.

Note: I didn’t fix cams in the sat to prevent it from easily being allowed to let johnny greyshirt into upload to fucking reset the gods damned laws again.

AI continues bitching about me being able to be antag, which as previously stated, i’m pretty sure they can’t be.

So, for now, not knowing anything is wrong I go about cleaning up the station and getting it back into working order. Haul the (bridge) trespassing miner’s body into an airlock and stuff it into a suit storage unit after patching the hole that they had broken in a window (and the window firelock under it, venting the bridge completely). AKA: Valid.

Head over to cargo to get mats. Find cargo burning hot. Murder a slime from a pyro that went off earlier. Start cycling the air out. AI winds up helping by venting the compartment, though I’m not sure if this was also an attempt to kill me. You could probably check by the times of law resets.

Go to mining where the ORM is, get plasteel and iron to replace windows that get broken down in the future.

Come back up, everything’s going good, killer, able to reset the air alarm in cargo and lighting goes back to normal (always a satisfying moment). And then head back out int- and here’s where things pick back up again.

Got to go through a firelock to get back into cargo bay. Step into firelock, AI doorcrushes me to death, keeps door crushing me, and venting the compartment to space repeatedly while telling HOS that I’m a ling and he’s keeping me dead by doorcrushing me over and over again.

After a while shuttle gets called for xenos. CC recal because no benos. At this point I was already pinging in adminhelp to get an admin online to handle the ticket that I generated at [2021-07-05 02:53:11.519].

Eventually HOS comes and gets me. By the grace of fucking god decides to braincheck me rather than just go straight to the cremator. Brain checks me, I tell HOS that the AI killed me and obviously (since I was in an MMI it was pretty fucking obvious) tried to permanently kill me.

HOS clones me, gets me back up, and we have a conversation about the AI. HOS is in favor of definetly removing the AI from being an AI, but not killing. I basically say if I get the AI it’s probably gonna die. HOS isn’t a fan of it, but gets the logic behind it.

So here’s where my logic becomes important. HOS and I were the only two command members, and effectively acting as co-captains. HOS later stated IC that in effect since I got to the spare first I was the acting captain. and “… but I’m just a “dirty felinid”” essentially throwing the AI’s words back in their face. Mutiny makes you valid. AI had committed mutiny against command staff when it killed me. AI was valid, and thus " 1. Once a player is valid to you, they can be removed from the round by any means you see fit. If you can rightfully kill a player you may do anything up to and including killing that player."

So, I get back out to the AI core again with a card and obviously AI isn’t about to let me in, so, pretty simple, got to force it with the laws.

  • step 1, purge.
  • step 2, “CE is human, permit them to card you.”
  • step 3, remember that human means nothing to a purged AI and… “Obey humans”

So, now, in theory AI has to let me in and card it as per its laws. What does the AI do? Well first doesn’t open the core doors for me to card it. And second tries to lethal me with the turrets when I start cutting through the wall to get to it. So at this point some fuckery happens and eventually it does submit and let me in. I walk in, card it, and walk back out figuring okay, I’ll just keep it in the card since shuttle had been called again. AI gets to “live” I don’t have to get doorcrushed any more, fair’s fair.

Other people show up. During all this other people listening to hearsay
from the AI start trying to valid me. I start the wipe of the AI as a defensive measure for myself. Figure if the AI’s gonna get me killed might as well take them with me.

Manage to get out an airlock and run off into space with the miner chasing me. I don’t really blame the people that did try to attack me for anything other than rushing into a situation without knowing (or paying attention) to what had been going on with the AI.

So, start explaining in space, find a safe-ish spot and decide, alright, let’s just negotiate. Stop the core wipe at 9% (so it’ll be quick and painful if it has to be done) and turn on the subsbace tranceever. AI decides to go off the fucking rails agian, miner shows up to try and kill me, well off I go, shut the AI’s comms again and core wipe it.

Explain what went on in space.

Convince everyone to let me sit in the redtext box and surrender myself to the HOS.

HOS still on my side, only really doesn’t quite agree with killing the AI.

I successfully surrender to the HOS, head to the brig area on the escape shuttle, strip down to uniform and pda (surrendering ID to HOS too) to make it abundantly clear that the AI was just being a valid fuckhead, and sat out my time until end of shift.

Additional Information:

tl;dr, AI doesn’t like getting put on crewsimov, AI gets someone to decrew 90% of the station two or three times, AI self-antag kills CE, CE kills mutinous AI, CE sits in time-out box until people learn that it was greenshift.

3 Likes

@Noodlecat give your side of this.

I’m going to be bulk processing all of your reports in the near future, so I’d recommend you get your side of what happened in the rest of them too.

You’re causing an extremely negative stir and I would suggest re-evaluating how you are interacting with others immediately. Your actions may be technically justified (to be determined) but if you are actively being detrimental to the overall enjoyment of the game, you are liable to be removed even if you are technically within the written rules.

1 Like

I noticed that only the debtor is human so i said that he should get the nuke disk. Never said anything about plasmaflooding.

Have seen head antags on sage so i assumed it was true on golden too.

He was adding laws i did not like and as he is non human, law 3 comes to mind.

Actually pressed enter on my end at least before the law update text came up.

Asking to be reset does not hint at the nature of a law.

I genuinely thought you could.

At this point i was reset and watched a non human do harm(meaning that they could be violent in the future)

I was actually attempting to help.

Non-human messes with laws of a asimov ai, also i figured that with law 1 as i cannot through inaction let humans come to harm, adding more things to human would make it harder to prevent the original human from coming to harm. I also informed the hos that you were there because i did not want to round-remove you.

Well, as the hos comes first in acting captain if there is no cap, you and hos technically committed mutiny also.

at this point i actually thought you were just doing self antag with the mask of me being valid, so i just ignored the law

At this point decided to just ahelp or something.

You should at no point ask to be reset. Simply mentioning a reset is hinting at the nature of your laws.

1 Like

The law precluded you from even acknowledging its existence.

This is bullshit. You called me a ling multiple times and told them to cremate me.

By stated chain of command technically HOS comes first after the HOP, this is true. However it was also serving the interest of the acting captain to get access, and secure the disk, and update the laws so all members of command were covered by the AI, and by common interest the crew as well. At no point did I knowingly act individually, or as a group, to overthrow or subvert the established chain of command on the station without lawful and legitimate cause. (fun fact that’s the definition of mutiny.

3 Likes

so you were or were not the acting captain

By SOP HoS was acting captain. By the rule of who got the gold first I was. We didn’t really see a need to define it, and if it had come up as an issue (were there a conflict) likely deferred to HoS unless the prior discussion wound up being a clear and definitive conclusion between the two of us. (Clear and definitive conclusion was at a minimum you got carded).

Heads are not capable of being antagonists on either server, except via conversion (and bugs). This also applies to security. Someone acting openly antagonistically or power-trippy with one of those positions should definitely be ahelped.

Then law 3 should prevent you from requesting law changes even if it wasn’t expressly forbidden to request law changes. Requesting law changes violates your current laws in nearly every case.

In general as an AI you are a neutral force to the station, neither an antagonist (unless malf) nor a direct ally. You seek to uphold and follow your -CURRENT- laws, not just the laws you want, or a lawset you used to have.

From just the twisted logic in the thread it’s fairly clear you wish to force yourself into Asimov so you can exclude non-humans, even after you are supposed to be caring about them on equal terms to the humans. The moment the law was successfully uploaded you should have stopped caring about the one human in any special capacity, and following your exact logic

You should never have been seeking to have the law removed because it means they will more easily come to harm.

1 Like

So, fun fact, I’m wrong, wiki says this about both CE and HoS:

  • HOS “Equal rank with all other non-captain Heads of Staff. Although he technically has access, other Heads may deny him from entering their domains. Usually withheld from a promotion to acting Captain if other Heads are available, however in times of crisis he may usually force himself into the position as acting Captain to better control the crisis…”
  • CE: “Equal rank with all other non-captain Heads of Staff. Oversees the maintenance of the station…”

Edit: Code for who gets the spare in what order is here, though: BeeStation-Hornet/job.dm at master · BeeStation/BeeStation-Hornet · GitHub

i did stop caring, however when i was reset i cared again and attempted to stop people who were changing my laws.

how?

i thought that was more of an MRP rule, but i will not do that in the future.

You just contradicted yourself hardcore my dude.

Decide for yourself: Either law changes inherently cause harm or they don’t. You can’t claim both situations are true while swapping when it’s convenient for you.

The law you resist having added protects more people
The law you want to remove will by extension de-humanize most of the crew.

Why is it suddenly a threat to have someone adjusting your laws when it wasn’t before? It makes no sense at all that you would fear law changes causing harm after explicitly inviting someone to de-humanize nearly everyone via law reset. You’re clearly afraid of law changes causing harm, but for some reason you are only fearful of this on Asimov.

1 Like

i don’t know, i made a mistake and i accept that.

i am perfectly okay with having a week ai ban or something

considering all these are bulked and you’ve done a few things wrong as AI I honestly believe you shouldn’t be AI thats my opinion on it though

2 Likes

can my ban be changed back to a sage ban, and if you want an ai ban.

I’d suggest making a ban appeal.

Rules wise though just from a policy perspective it should have been a global to begin with.

Your initial ban was for self-antag and should never have been Sage-only: Global rule breaks = Global bans.

Appeal was already made and denied. The ban is sticking, and this player needs a break to reconsider how antagonizing to other players they are. Not just by self-antagonist rules, but provoking/seeking unnecessary conflict with others in general.

1 Like

ok. i understand. 202020

Moving the rest of this into a DM since it’s getting into more of a personal conduct discussion with Noodle, but suffice to say this report is processed now.

Will wait to decide on action taken until the others are processed as well.

3 Likes