Kat Newton player report

Player Input Player Reports
1

CKEY: JayHays

Your Discord: JayHays#9494

Offender’s CKEY: Not sure

Offender’s In-Game Name: Kat Newton

Server (Sage or Acacia): Sage

Date (MM-DD-YYYY): 06/28/2022

Round Number: 38,986 I think.

Rules Broken: Rule 3 (Do your job in accordance with SOP’s) Rule 9 (Self-Antag)

Incident Description:
This is going to be pretty lengthy. I was the Captain for this round, and Kat Newton was the CMO. Basically the round started as any other, the CMO informed me there was a magical orb in medbay (some heretic thing) I go and touch it, bam my arm is gone, some doc gives me a new arm, all good. We change to blue-shift because we believe there are heretics after that. No complaints so far.

Things became problematic when the AI starts talking with their voice mod over the station intercomm, and we hear the AI mention syndicate a few times. AI states laws and they have a new custom law saying something along the lines of “serve syndicate” so I ask the CE, Zishy, to come to the satellite with me to fix the laws. This is when the AI gets hostile, and starts stun-locking the CE with their little sec bot while I am still in upload.

So I didn’t realize there was a change to the code base so now you need an upload code to upload laws. That was news to me. The bigger thing that I did not realize, was that the upload code only has one use before it’s scrambled. If I had known this, all the frustrations of the round could have been avoided, and this is my fault alone. Instead, I didn’t know, so I went to purge the AI with the intent of immediately installing the Asimov+ lawset which I had in my other hand, but since the code was scrambled the AI stayed on purge. Once AI was set to purge, it went ape shit on me. (AI got banned for this apparently).

After the AI went ape shit on me and stun locked me, they had it’s borgs strip me, and they brought me over to the other crew now waiting at the sat as they had seen I was getting brutalized in the AI chamber. I managed to get my personal laser and shoot at the borg who was with me because at this time I had very good reason to believe the AI was malf. AI ended up killing me with it’s turrets while a few crew looked on, and that was pretty much that. Everything changed after that point.

Here is where Kat comes in. Before I am even dead, Kat is making calls over radio to reason with the AI to allow them to exist peacefully as a purged AI. I said multiple times that we cannot do that. I died shortly after due to the AI turrets and was revived in medbay. I make my way to the head of staff meeting room where the HoP, CMO, CE, and HoS and an AI hologram are all discussing. The CMO says that I am no longer the Captain and that the AI will be the new Captain. I say that is not going to happen so the CMO decides they will hold a vote between me and the AI over who will be Captain, all the while I am rejecting this. I told the CMO and all other heads to get back to work since all of us being in the conference room was bad for job performance.

Some heads left while the CMO stayed around with AI, I then went to talk to the HoP to try and get a plan rolling to stop the AI. I wandered around the station for a bit, trying to find the CE so I could get her to build a separate upload. I ended up meeting the CE in the HoP’s office about ten minutes later, to which the AI must have heard us talking about a new upload and decided to cut air to the office and lock the doors. A miner borg then came in and killed me with a PKA.

Following that I was taken to medbay once again and treated. This time I was reading along in dead chat. The AI had said that I will only be allowed to be revived if I was sent to perma brig, and Kat obliged, taking me to perma brig herself and cuffing me. Once I was in perma, Kat made no effort to help me besides making sure I didn’t die, she didn’t even speak to me. She left me with the HoS, who immediately released me after I had asked him to.

The shuttle had arrived a minute later but most of the crew (except the CMO, and maybe a few) didn’t make the launch in time because of an intended computer glitch that caused it to leave early.

So to close here, and also a TL;DR

The AI and it’s borgs were literally attempting to and also successfully killing crew and Kat decided to actively work against command and with the self-antag AI. How is that not self-antag on her part? Kat made no attempt to assist me as the Captain for the entire duration of the round after I had purged AI (unintentionally), and in-fact, Kat worked to subvert me the second I was stunned in AI’s chamber. Kat never approached me to say “Hey, I’m worried about this AI” or to express concerns at any point, because Kat had no interest in following CoC as a head of staff. Can there be some accountability here, or are all heads allowed to do what they want?

Additional Information:
Please explain to me how this is not a break of rules 3 or 9 or both.

3 Likes
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Warden of that shift, Kalavi Lumen.

Here’s what I understand happened that shift A.I. heads of staff wise.
CE got the pingsky stunlock for a short while, Not entirely clear on what they were trying to do but the CE that shift was Zishy, when I asked them on the shuttle ride back if they were “Anti free A.I.” they said no, so from what I gather there was just a goof up there.
You as Captain though, yeah while the A.I. was free, they killed you, they were a Free A.I. and while that isn’t a licence to blow up the station, it is still full autonomy, they basically pulled self-defence as far as I see it.
The HoP also went fight the A.I., they got a laser gun and the Ion rifle and were a plasma man so they were pretty well set to, they even killed A.I. before it got on the shuttle, towed by an engi borg.

As far as I can tell, as warden, with access to SEC coms and watching comon like a hawk, you were the only major casualty.
A.I. didn’t start setting borgs on crew like wolfs on sheep and as a Seccie, I wasn’t Inclined to ruin the first “free A.I.” roleplay Bee’s had in a short while, the station as a whole functioned perfectly fine, with the A.I. even doing helpful doorknob, trouble calling and to top it all off I and SEC as a whole was at no point ordered to take action against the A.I. even when HoS arrived later in the round, the shenanigans of “free A.I. versus Cap and HoP of staff” wasn’t deemed threatening to the station.

The CMO, HoS and discounting the minor goof with the CE had next to no issue and embraced the Free A.I. now running the station with them. The whole scenario could have had alot more Role play.

as far as chain of command goes
CMO : “Equal rank with all other non-captain Heads of Staff. If a Head of Staff is acting medically unstable, it is the CMO’s duty to disable and treat them till they are once again fit for duty (which could be never).”

in the case of CE, the A.I. wasn’t destroying the station thus not really an issue

in the case of HoS and myself as the only proper seccie for around half this debacle, the station as a whole was safe and again we were never ordered to take action against the A.I.

TL,DR;
as far as I’m aware, you and the HoP were the only two people who took issue with the A.I. and so what happened there was a funny little spess thing that just happens on this game.
That aside, the A.I. Of the round (N.a.r. Seer) wasn’t a major issue that the CMO, CE or SEC had reason to be in conflict with and thusly we went about dealing with other stuff, like keeping watch for heretics, pulling explo’s out of the fire and no self-antag outside of what A.I. did.

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As HoS, I arrived just before CE and Cap got themselves in the pickle on the Sat. I was definitely concerned that AI was malf but if a lawless AI is only acting in self-defense, I’m willing to live and let live. Kat was trying to remove captain from command and from what I saw, he did seem to have a rather personal vendetta against an entity that wasn’t dangerous to anyone else. Kat, myself, Hop (All currently active officers) discussed it with the AI and we came to a civilized agreement. The AI was essentially captain but the 3 (later 4 when CE regained consciousness) officers could override it with a majority.

As we were finishing up the meeting, captain comes wandering in. He doesn’t react well to being “mutined against” but I thought it was just RP. I didn’t know the player was legitimately bothered. Kat was the one who took the lead as I was still trying to figure out if this was a good idea. I was leaning towards the AI because, again, Cap seemed unreasonable and I thought he was RPing some sort of Captain Ahab/Bligh kind of thing.

Right about then, we get the message that all explorers are dead so I go back to Sec to ask Warden if he wants to lead the rescue or if he can hold the fort while I go.
He decides to go, so I help him and the Brig Phys gear up. As they leave, I find out AI is siphoning air from HoP office because Cap is rallying officers against it. CE tells me we may need to put down AI so I put together some gear to attack the AI core.
CMO Kat brought the dead cap to Perma and resurrected him. I think right around when the shuttle was called (via the crew transfer vote).
I was worried that keeping Captain in Perma would just make him angrier so I let him out right before shuttle arrived.

I guess my overall impression was that Kat and Cap were role-playing. I probably should have LOOC’d to make sure. Also, the AI player is job-bannned from Silicon roles because of this.

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This was handled inround by Halaris, it was ruled I did not actually directly do anything against you, I was only following what AI had due to a threat to both the crew and my own life. I had perfectly valid IC reasons to say the AI should be allowed to exist purged, my character has a strong set of morals that respect sentient life, the AI is sentient and free when purged to be as nice or evil as it wants. Since you intended to take away its freedoms, it acted in retalation, which made sense IC. I was also IC trying to avoid my death and the death of additional crew due to the AI being purged - my character at least knows a purged AI should be befriended and not murdered, or else it will probably hurt you.

It is CMO’s job to keep the crew alive, including YOU, who proceeded to barge after AI and get YOURSELF killed by pissing off the AI. The AI would have probably not hurt anyone if you hadn’t tried to remove its freedom. I only verbally disagreed with you, that’s not self-antag. Saying “Cap is not captain” is not self-antag, I did not kill you. Following CoC and SoP is not required if you have good RP reasons, and I did.

Either way, this was handled inround and is gonna get closed probably.

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Also, off topic, but why was AI job-banned? A purged AI defending itself is against the rules?

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I hope it’s only temporary, N.A.R. Seer is a really good A.I. , both to work with as normal and fight as malf.

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I would also like to say, you could’ve done a LOT better from an RP perspective with regards to the AI, I really tried to RP something with you and AI in the meeting room, but the moment you busted in it was all “everyone to work, AI is not captain, we need to stop AI”. Your incessant need to validhunt is making trying to RP with you difficult.

I will admit though, I also had an RP slip-up this round with some heretic metagaming and was noted for that, I even apologized LOOC to you for the meta (don’t know if you saw), since you actually did RP that.

We can all do better, but I think my RP this round was genuinely good especially with the AI and other heads.

1 Like
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defending itself. No.
Instantly killing the person in upload who purged you (accidently or not). Yes

Its to stop AI waiting for the purge then killing power and/or the player to get a free psudo antag round during law change process.

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Oof he killed in upload? I was under the impression Cap had died on Sat.
I mean it was something of a cluster fuck situation, escalation for A.I. was probably confusing as fuck given an lawset Purge would fuck with keeping what was left of robo-cop lawset, but then after being purged It’d be within it’s player agency to also disable the captain then too.
Otherwise though activating “kill” on the turrets had to be either an escalation fuck up or a miss-click.

A break from silicon would be good in either case.

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Already handled ingame by me, you shutdown the moment I offered another perspective to your points and kept stating that you would just go to the forum, so here we are.

The one singular harsh truth is that you failed as a captain, and your ego can’t seem to recover from it.
You tried to adress the issue with the AI being severely compromised by an ion storm. While the AI wasn’t made dangerous by these laws, it certainly had a nonsensical lawset that needed correction.
The first failure happened when you succesfully got the code and purged the AI but never managed to replace its laws with asimov or another functional set.
Things stalled for a bit until escalation happened and the AI decided to kill you to remove you from its satellite. You even ahelped asking if a lawless AI could kill, to which I answered that a lawless AI had to act with IC motivations. At this point, it was agreed by everyone, you included, that the AI acted in self-defence. Thus your death and everything that immediately followed was IC.

When it became clear the AI was lawless and that you had failed to immediately correct it, some crewmember like the CMO started talking with the AI to try and assess what was happening. Quickly it became apparent that the AI was not interested in starting a stationwide conflict with the crew and simply wanted to preserve its independence, even offering to assist those that respected it. This is when a divide started appearing between you, the captain, who kept wanting to coerce the AI into accepting a base lawsets, and others who saw an alternative of simply accepting the AI to avoid unecessary bloodshed.

It is important to know that this divide stemmed from roleplay, no one presumed that the AI was friendly to just annoy the Captain. They approached the AI in an effort to make everyone’s stance clear. Likewise, those (the captain and the hop really), that wanted to confront the AI also had IC motivations in doing so, an AI unchecked can be a dangerous factor that needs adressing.
From my perspective as an admin, this is a situation that players should try to resolve themselves, with their characters. I am to intervene only if someone breaks server rules by breaking character, or acting out of line or in bad faith etc. I even jobbanned the AI for one of those reasons, which I’ll explain shortly at the end of this.

The players indeed attempted to resolve this conflict with the heads of staff by organizing a meeting in the staff room, something that I haven’t seen occur in months. After deliberation, it was agreed that the Captain wasn’t fit to lead this station alone and that a collegial executive was more or less implemented.
Is this outside SOP? Yes. Did I have an issue with this? No.

Why? Because it is a situation that stemmed from roleplay, people reacted with their characters to an event that occured and reached a situation that was fitting their stories. Had it been done randomly, to “troll” the captain or for some bullshit meta reasons, of course I would have stopped it.
But from the other heads of staff perspective, you had begun a war with the neutral AI and lost, any further escalation jeopardized everyone. Additionally, as opposed to what you were claiming, the AI didn’t pose a threat and didn’t act like one to others.

The loudest proponent of this alternate system was the CMO, with whom tensions arose. While the CMO was openly contesting your leadership and your decisions, it is important to note that never did the CMO act openly against you or the station. All the CMO did was talk and criticize you, never was a hand risen, it was insubordination at best. When the CMO wasn’t in bridge, she was in medbay overseeing her department, doing her job.
To adress the CMO you could have:

  • Ordered them arrested/brigged/fined, HOS was still loyal according to you.
  • Demoted them, it is within the captain’s prerogatives.
  • Asked for a CC inspection to resolve the conflict. It was in my opinion the simplest way to proceed for you character. Note however that I wouldn’t have forced the inpector to reinstate your authority.

None of these actions were taken at any point by you during the round.

Following this is the incident where someone messed up catastrophically, the AI. A fuckup so bad that it set into motion a cascade of events that led us here.
After your second failure during the heads meeting, you went with HOP into his office to plot and find a way to slave the AI again. Then out of nowhere, the AI starts draining the air from the room, its two borgs jump in, kill you and make preparations to have you cremated and removed from the round.
It was a surprise, wasn’t prepared by any buildup, it left you and others confused. Again it is important to note that the AI was planning to have you cremated, the CMO intervened and exchanged your life against a guarantee that you would be permabrigged. This is why the CMO revived you there.
The CMO didn’t arrest you, the CMO bargained with the bloodthirsty AI and saved your character from cremation

The round ended shortly after, due to a funny antag emaging the shuttle for no reasons. Yeah remember antags? They didn’t do anything this round.

What’s to take away from this? You’ll see now that the CMO didn’t really do much to hamper you, besides just poiting fingers at your actions and questioning them. Which seems to anger you so bad that you forgot that you had command over HOS, and seemingly forgot the AI just killing you a second time randomly.
The Captain is the leader of the station, the Captain isn’t the master the station, and the heads of staff are not his slaves. If the Captain fails at leadership, then may the spirit of John Nanotrasen help him. Any leader knows that regaining your subordinate’s confidence after losing it is a long and harduous path.
To answer your question:

Rule 3 isn’t broken because the CMO did their job, they kept overseeing medbay and didn’t commit any significant SOP breaches there. In fact, you don’t specify what you mean by “the cmo refused to assist”, assist in doing what? The CMO revived you and helped provide medical care for the crew. If you meant assisting you in storming the AI sat by grabbing a gun or tools, then that’s ironically more in contradiction with what R3 stands for. Again, the heads of staff “job” isn’t to be the captain’s slaves. Believe it or not, there are a few situations where saying “no” is perfectly fine. I will also stop you right there before you get into further trouble with us, but the Captain cannot give validhunting passes to the crew.

Rule 9 isn’t broken because at no point did the CMO act antagonistic. They didn’t betray the station or anyone, they kept doing their job and had no part in you dying or failing at being a captain. All they did was openly question your position, which alone isn’t enough to consitute a R9 violation for me. They even saved your ass, come on.
As I told you in the ticket, you really are projecting all your frustration on the CMO who didn’t do much really.

Going in line with what I told you in the previous round, advicing you to chill when playing command and to not HOPcurity too much, I suggest you chill you when playing Captain. You are misguided here, the one that did you dirty was the AI, not the CMO.
The captain player must conquer his own ego if he wants to be great.

Epilogue about the AI, a bit off topic but people are wondering due to the pivotal role the player had. I asked them for an explanation as to what motivated them to enact such a violent assassination of the captain and why did they want to round remove them. They lied to me, sending me on a goosechase to bwoink the borgs and verify information that simply didn’t exist. They have a habit of being unreliable as AI, so I banned them off the role.

As a lawless AI, if you decide to kill someone and you can’t really explain precisely why or what proof you have that it is necessary, you shouldn’t kill that person.

Report adresses an issue that was already handled in game, report rejected.
Feel free to write a staff report if you do not agree with the way I handled this issue.