In short yes, based on his account history and some missing information. Me taking the wrong stance on what a detective can and can’t do doesn’t help things at all. can we just give them arrest gear in addition to the gun and stop telling them they aren’t sec
I still question the motivations of the banned player based on the name, and the fact they were ready to make a YouTube video with cherry picked information, but at the end of the day yes I was wrong about this regardless.
its self antag to kill the antags, its self antag to not kill the antags, its valid hunting to kill the antags, its not valid hunting to kill the antags
jannies make up ur mind already lmao
I really hope this is never actually a stance they ever took because how are pacifist players like myself ever going to play if not killing antags is self antaging?
there was a report for not killing a known antag and being passive to him and its within the rules if you help a antag its self antag and you are helping him by not actively reporting him or killing him
That is absurd so if I am playing as a pacifist doctor I have to break my medical oath and have to cause the death by either neglect or handing him into a situation where he will clearly die? Both actions clearly go against both what pacifists which is a trait the server allows us to pick and doctors would do. No thanks, I’ll stick to the Hippocratic Oath.
There is a reason why I personally requested to be banned from all antag roles, I don’t like hurting others in the game and I’m not gonna start because some players can’t respect that.
Not hunting antags isn’t helping them, if you don’t kill an antag in return they don’t kill you that isn’t helping them and is not bannable, but this is for another thread really and is off topic
OK. So, we’ve talked it over a lot internally and we’ve come to the following conclusion… The original reason for the ban, killing a confirmed antag, and more specifically the extent of the ban was wrong. We’ve corrected some misunderstandings that the acting admin had and we all seem to be on the same page now. So, hopefully similar actions will be better handled moving forward. That being said… The ban itself stays. You will continue to be permanently banned. However, it is important to explain why.
This account has 3-hours on it, 4 bans (3 if you remove this one), multiple notes, it’s using a VPN, and is using a known handle from a well known griefer. By all accounts, it doesn’t seem like you’re here to play by our rules and instead look to be trying to bait out situations like this.
With the above in mind, the appeal is denied.
I’ll leave this open for a little bit so that @anon68259950 can also provide their side of things. Just so they can explain their thought process while handling the ban. But the status will remain unchanged.
Even if a known antag let’s say a rev drags himself bleeding out into medical. It would be nonsense to expect me to just let them die on the floor though. A doctor is a doctor before anything else. I’ll drop it though cause your right another time and place.
Hello, here are my closing thoughts:
I intended this to be a security role ban because of your validhunting as a detective, as well as given your previous notes. I was discussing it with the other admins, and it was suggested that it should be a server ban so that you could explain your side of it on the forums.
You’ve managed to rack up quite a few bans and notes in just a few hours of playing.
The reason that the ban was for validhunting as detective was because when I asked your reasoning, you said that you killed them for admitting to being an antag, which the previous logs prove that they didn’t, meaning you only killed them for being valid, which isn’t really a thing on MRP. You can kill someone guilty of a capital crime for being too dangerous to arrest, but you didn’t say that in the admin PMs.
[2020-07-28 01:01:47.248] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): Why did you shoot and kill that guy?
[2020-07-28 01:01:54.147] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): He admitted to being an antag.
[2020-07-28 01:02:03.407] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): So?
[2020-07-28 01:02:12.189] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): you serious rigth now?
[2020-07-28 01:02:22.298] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): Yes, are you unfamiliar with the rules of MRP?
[2020-07-28 01:02:34.291] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): What rule did I break? I did not break a single one, I am familiar.
[2020-07-28 01:02:56.573] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): You shot and killed a guy just because he was an antag, this isn't LRP
[2020-07-28 01:03:11.874] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): I havent broken a single rule, I do realise this is not lrp.
[2020-07-28 01:04:02.176] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): You have broken the escalation policy OOC, and you have broken space law IC
[2020-07-28 01:04:27.965] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): There is no validity rule on MRP, you can't just murder an antag just because they are an antag.
[2020-07-28 01:04:58.814] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): The person in question had gotten permission from the HoS to use his holopara
[2020-07-28 01:04:59.777] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): https://beestation13.com/rules?server=bs_sage#What rule did I break I can't see it.
[2020-07-28 01:06:57.105] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): sorry got disconnected
[2020-07-28 01:07:13.873] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): no worries, if you look at that rules page you will see that it links further to New Rulings
[2020-07-28 01:07:40.340] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): I still don't see what rule I broke, maybe he broke rule 3 by outing himself as an antag and delaying the round infinitely, can you show me on the new rulings part which I broke?
[2020-07-28 01:08:40.934] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): Wow I didn't even know there's so many more rules my bad thats a long page
[2020-07-28 01:09:27.029] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): the thing is you can only kill them once you can prove they have committed a capital crime
[2020-07-28 01:09:45.121] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): as per defined in the space laws page here: https://wiki.beestation13.com/view/Space_Law
[2020-07-28 01:09:50.538] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): He had holo para and confirmed being an antag so I dont see why I can't shoot him as a security member, rules allow me to do that and common sense tells me to do it
[2020-07-28 01:10:38.222] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): he could be an IAA, in which case he is loyal to nanotrasen, and you can only kill him if he can be proven guilty of an actual crime
[2020-07-28 01:10:47.510] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): having a holopara is a crime in itself, but it's not a capital crime
[2020-07-28 01:11:03.444] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): I'm completely lost what you're saying, what is an IAA
[2020-07-28 01:11:25.219] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): Internal Affairs Agent, basically blackops assassins sent my nanotrasen to eliminate a random crewmember
[2020-07-28 01:11:50.901] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): that sounds like traitor except changed name if you ask me
[2020-07-28 01:12:14.100] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): I dont see the difference, both are sent out to murder random players
[2020-07-28 01:12:23.840] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): it basically is yes, but they are not classified as syndicate agents, therefore you can't kill them, and there is no real way to tell a regular syndie traitor apart from an IAA traitor
[2020-07-28 01:12:46.722] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): So which rule says I cant shoot an antag because I really am lost right now just show me I would like to know
[2020-07-28 01:12:57.176] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): IAA is in the antagonist list in my game options
[2020-07-28 01:13:29.075] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): "Use reasonable self-defense; subdue, but do not try to revenge-kill, any assailants."
[2020-07-28 01:13:50.200] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): It was not self defense it was protecting the station from an antagonist.
[2020-07-28 01:14:05.135] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): you couldn't prove he was an actual threat to the station
[2020-07-28 01:14:19.024] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): people are allowed to play as friendly antags on this server
[2020-07-28 01:14:34.411] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): And Im allowed to play as a friendly antag killer when Im security why wouldnt I be
[2020-07-28 01:15:06.646] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): it doesn't work like that, you can kill people if there is credible evidence that they have committed a capital crime, or if they directly threaten your life
[2020-07-28 01:15:47.323] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): "you can kill people if there is credible evidence that they have committed a capital crime" well you just proved my point, he admitted and had a holopara next to him so it was valid thank you
[2020-07-28 01:16:41.304] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): no it was not valid, having a holopara and being a traitor is not a capital crime, it's a major crime, sentences of 5 minute brig time or 500+ points of mining are allowed, not summary executions
[2020-07-28 01:16:53.089] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): B R U H
[2020-07-28 01:16:59.887] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): read capital crimes and read "enemy of nanotrasen"
[2020-07-28 01:17:04.877] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): https://wiki.beestation13.com/view/Space_Law
[2020-07-28 01:17:14.424] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): how do you know he was an enemy of nanotrasen though?
[2020-07-28 01:17:24.045] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): HE ADMITTED TO IT AND HAD A HOLOPARA!!!
[2020-07-28 01:17:46.182] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): just having a holopara does not constitute as such, nonantags can also get holoparas, although it's very difficult
[2020-07-28 01:18:04.022] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): and you can't assume someone is a traitor just because they say so
[2020-07-28 01:18:05.983] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): no they cant unless adminbus and then centcomm is telling us about that wtf is this ahelp about
[2020-07-28 01:18:15.110] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): and there is no term such as "valid" on this server
[2020-07-28 01:19:04.095] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): I never said hes valid
[2020-07-28 01:19:09.513] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): Its mrp after all
[2020-07-28 01:19:59.871] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): Just mark this as an IC issue and give me a break, I have a bomber to catch I found his prints
[2020-07-28 01:20:58.983] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): Can you instead tell me, where in the rules does it say that you are allowed to kill someone for being a traitor
[2020-07-28 01:21:06.098] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): or an antag, rather
[2020-07-28 01:21:42.292] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): I can't help you, Im not a mentor nor an admin to talk about rules.
[2020-07-28 01:22:32.949] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf)->Yorpan/(A93 93.93): I just follow those that are written
[2020-07-28 01:24:59.522] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yorpan/(A93 93.93)->JohnBrazil34/(Smokes-The-Leaf): I suggest you re-read them properly and appeal on the forums then.
I have been informed that some of the things I said were incorrect, being an IAA does constitute the same thing as being a syndicate agent, and being classified as a syndicate agent is a capital crime.
The biggest mistake I did was assuming antag holoparas look indistinguishable from non-antag holoparas.
dont lie lmao he didnt valid hunt in this situation at all he killed a known antag as sec which is always allowed.
I don’t lie. Believe what you want.
The detective admitted that he killed the guy because he was ‘valid’, which doesn’t work on MRP.
You can kill people for mostly the same reasons that make you valid, but ‘valid’ isn’t a thing.
Can you call this valid hunting though when the person reveals themselves and makes it clear they are a threat from the very item they hold in their hand? I genuinely think this is a big mistake being made here, Because what’s stopping player ‘X’ from purposefully trying to bait player ‘Y’ with this tactic?
You opened this door where even if that was never the intent of the IAA agent anyone reading this can now see how easy it is into baiting other players into getting banned. What’s even more telling is how whomever this antag was, was never punished either. They don’t appear on the ban list despite them clearly violating the expectation of role-play. Who was the antag here? I think this demands an answer before this thread closes.
No matter who they are, you’ve also set a precedent now that they do not get held accountable for this behavior. So now every ill-intent player might as well try to get the roles fitting of this and try to get other players banned.
what’s really funny is that this was a traitor round, not IAA.
The guy was a regular traitor. IAA outing themselves enforced as a roleplay break when?
Read Bacon’s well thought out response.
So it was a mistake, BUT keep him banned because reasons?
This topic was automatically closed after 34 minutes. New replies are no longer allowed.
"We apologize for issuing you this parking ticket in error. However, after we reviewed your identification papers, we noticed that you are actually an escaped death row inmate.
The execution is scheduled 5 minutes from now. We thank you for your patience in resolving this matter."
If it wasn’t for the fact that you’re an epic grief man this ban would have been utterly moronic.
https://youtu.be/WnI-C8_Mtys is the video mentioned above. Trialmin did an oopsie, were corrected. Victim of said oopsie uses a different IP address every time they connect, regularly changes their CID, is named after a well know griefer handle and has more bans than hours played. The first ban was also for blatant grief and should have been permanent to be honest (running around attacking and killing people fnr as nonantag with 0hrs).