Isy232 Banned By Admin Piterskiy

Ban Appeals Game Appeals
1

CKEY: Isy232

Admin’s CKEY: Piterskiy

Is this for both servers or just one? If so, which one: Sage

Which server did the ban happen on? Sage

Ban Type: Server

Ban Length: 2 Day

Ban Date (MM/DD/YYYY): 2020-05-02 14:44

Round ID: 15410

Ban Reason:

As engineer, built a combat mech by himself, armed it with guns and then used it to break into AI sat to card rogue AI. AI caused some mess on the station, but security was alive and there was no immediate threat to the station.

Appeal Reason:

AI caused some mess on the station, but security was alive and there was no immediate threat to the station.

AI being rogue is VERY MUCH an immediate threat to the station.

Additional Information:

As a non-security & non-command crewmember, you’re not an experienced soldier. Do not rush into danger without reason.

I assume this is the bit of the rule that Piterskiy thinks I broke, however a rouge AI is a TON of reason to put yourself into a possibly dangerous situation. I’ll provide the context.

1: Am an engineer and nothing much is going on so I decide to start setting up some machines. I set up a 12 or so bluespace miners, an ore silo to connect them, a chemistry set and an exosuit fabricator. If there is currently nothing I am needed for as an engineer, I will set up things that may allow me to be more useful and to make me have something to do.
2: I start printing a Gygax with previously mentioned exosuit fabricator. I heard that the mech was changed and with all of the bluespace miners there are shit tons of material. I was doing the job of a roboticist because there was no current need for me in engineering.
3: Someone says over comms in loud mode that the RD has subverted the AI.
4: Telecomms is immediately shut off.
5: Research and print guns for previously made mech.
6: By now doors are being shocked, telecomms got fixed and people are screaming about AI being rogue. Someone says over engi comms “Plasmaflood stopped”.
7: I print an intellicard at science, a scattershot and missile rack and head off to the AI satellite.
8: Use mech to break into the AI satellite and card the AI, give said carded AI to a security officer.
9: Get bwoinked, explain this reasoning, get banned anyways.

The AI being rogue is a state of emergency, especially when there is talk of a plasmaflood, comms being turned off and doors being shocked.

The AI satellite is built like a tank. It is extremely difficult to brute force your way into it and with the time it would take for security to laser it down or go through multiple layers of reinforced wall with tools and then the turrets the AI could siphon the air out of half the station. There was a wall that needed to be removed and I removed it to help security because of the possibility that the rogue AI would turn into an incredibly dangerous situation. The emergency shuttle was called during all of this as well, if that is not evidence enough that there was at least a perceived threat to the station.

I was acting as a roboticist because there was nothing else to do. When a serious threat to the station came up that I knew how to help with, I did what I could to stabilize the situation and save my fellow crew members. I did not collect any guns, flashes, stun batons or other items that were unnecessary for the task I was doing.

If making or using a mech to deal with large station issues is powergaming I will never do it again, however I would like a council ruling or at least a headmin to confirm this, because I read the rules and I’ve done this multiple times before, with plenty of admins online and never had any issues before. For example, twice I have seen xenomorphs, twice I have made mechs to try to save me and my fellow crew from the aliens and both those times no admins got involved.

Also, 2 days for this is excessive, it should be extremely obvious from my response in the tickets that I was doing my best to follow the rules. All you had to do was explain exactly where I went wrong and actually put in effort to explain where my interpretation of the rules went wrong so I can correct my actions. I’m not a troll and I do my best to avoid breaking the rules while enjoying the game.

2

As a non-security & non-command crewmember, you’re not an experienced soldier. Do not rush into danger without reason.

I was sec then, I found you with your gygax in a hidden spot, you did not try to pass the mech off to me. I did go for the stun, however I did not use any lethals on you and was only trying to stun until I got some cuffs on you. You resisted that, managed to get into your mech and tried to go into space. I followed, tried to destroy your mech as that is obviously a very big security risk, you managed to kill me. After which you SPACED MY BODY, which was a real bruh move given you had already won the fight at that point, I guess you wanted to get rid of any evidence.

Regardless, you should have not resisted the arrest, you should have passed the mech to sec. I went to the sat prepared to deal with the AI, I stopped the plasma flood, the borg’s mech was destroyed and I had access to binary channel, the situation was not out of sec’s control. We knew it was IAA and anybody could be traitor, I could not just ignore you being in a combat mech that I saw you put rockets on.

So, I guess congratulations on out-robusting me but powergaming as hell, spiced with a bit of self antag given you resisted arrest and ran out into space with your mech.

3

This is pretty much a whole other incident, but okay.

From my perspective this shift was not under control whatsoever. Doors were being shocked, telecomms was off occasionally. I had no idea if they AI had any cyborgs left. I did hear someone say that they prevented the AI from plasmaflooding, but any engineering cyborg could fix that and the AI can still siphon the air out of rooms.

Then there was the situation with me getting into the mech. Things appear to be going to hell so I arm it up and then you run over to me and flash me. You do not use words at all, you flash me until I have minor amount of eye damage and then strip me of my toolbelt and backpack. At this point I have no idea who the fuck you are. You are wearing a security hardsuit with a security ID, but have not said anything at all yet. You have not proven your identity as a member of security and you attempted to strip me before even cuffing me. I’m not sure if you’re trying to remove my headset so I cannot call for help. For all I know your a traitor who stole a security officers ID, but I do not know for sure yet so I think to get myself into a situation where I am no longer vulnerable to you, inside the mech.

I get into the mech since during the entire time you were stripping me and flashing me you never cuffed me. I thought you still might be a security officer so I didn’t fight back, I ran away. YOU THEN CHASED ME OUT OF THE AIRLOCK AND BEGAN ATTACKING MY MECH WITH AN ENERGY SWORD. With this action the odds change. In space you are faster so I have no chance of escape. You knocked my mech down to 40% HP so I then decide to rocket you point blank. At this point I assume you are a traitor that has just tried to kill me. Considering rouge AI and from my perspective general chaos I space you in a straight line in a memorable area. I know exactly where your corpse would end up and where to retrieve it. I did this so nobody finds your body, assumes your the victim and heals you so you can then screw me over. You attacked me with an energy sword when I had never attempted to harm you, you have been completely suspicious, proven yourself hostile and not identified yourself as any form of authority. All you had to do was flash me and cuff me so we could talk it out. In this way you completely failed your duties as a security officer.

I would not have resisted an arrest where you clearly identified yourself as a security officer by flashing me, immediately cuffing me and then talking to me about any concerns you had.

I definitely understand you not wanting me to climb into the mech in the first place, if I was traitor I could turn around and instantly rocket you in the face. I didn’t think you were a traitor for flashing me. I thought you were a traitor for the multiple other things you did instead of cuffing me and either bringing me to the brig or search/interrogating me right there.

Look at it from my perspective, from all of the evidence you gave me of your identity, I was almost entirely sure you were a traitor and that is your fault. I did everything I could to avoid a fight here with the exception of surrendering to a likely traitor who had proven themselves hostile.

4

Logs usually solve these arguments…
usually sec should demand surrender and if the person is near a mech of course they should make sure the suspect cant climb into it, but an unprepared sec is a shitsec.

Thing is anyone could have stolen a sec suit and have a sec ID and if you don’t talk that makes it worse as they don’t know if the guy in the suit is the same as what the ID says. (there is always the chameleon mask but that is a bit niche)

Mistakes were made and engineer should have tried to contact sec about making a mech. Sec should have shoved engineer away from said mech (if distant maybe rush while disabling) and said at least one word like “Halt” or something equally fast to type to engage in questioning.

I find that if they don’t comply quickly or reply you can assume they are up to no good.

Syndicate gear in sec hands is usually a death sentence for said sec if they aren’t backed up by other sec or a figure of authority.

But yeah if you make a mech please inform security about it as you are not supposed to go around in a combat mech doing securitys job or even make one if you are not an antag or it is very clear most of security is dead and even then it seemes like the hammer falls very easily.

5

If I had esword, and I stunned you before, why did I not just cut you down then? Why was a sec in a hardsuit, FOLLOWED BY THE HOP, going towards the AI sat in a rogue AI situation?

Edit: What I’m saying is that I was non-lethally detaining you, with the HoP and an engineer looking, despite having a lethal weapon. The reason I was looking through your bag is because my unrobust ass forgot to refill on cuffs.

6

IIRC I was halfway through climbing into it when I was flashed. I have no issue, if I was the seccie here I would have flashed me too.

I know for a fact I was flashed and stunned outside of the mech for a fair bit of time until they started removing some of my gear, which caused them to stop stunning me.

I was then able to run over to the mech and climb in before they reacted by shoving them away while climbing in.

Yeah, I should have told them, but I wanted to deal with the AI as soon as possible. The intellicard from tech storage was missing so I had to go all the way to science to get one and any time wasted means that from my thoughts someone could have been killed by siphoning of a room and electrified doors.

7

You were close to the HoP when you came in, however the HoP can be someone just wearing their outfit, a roundstart traitor or just unaffiliated. I’m pretty sure while you stuck around with me they went into the transit tube or something. I saw you enter with them but I did not see them afterwards or while you were stunning me.

Possibly you didn’t kill me because you wanted to take off my headset, cuff me and drag me off somewhere so you could kill me in a quieter place.

Perhaps you were an IAA who had a pinpointer on me, one of the reasons I was less suspicious off you at first was because you were heading towards the AI core.

Perhaps you were a traitor and one of your objectives involved stealing an AI.

I was only a little bit suspicious, all of the things you mentioned made me think you were security at first until you stripped me.

I have no idea if it was accidental or not but there should be no reason for a security officer to strip someone of anything before cuffing them. Traitors are the only group who would have any reason to do this. This alone did not confirm it though as it could have been an accident, hence I tried to run away instead of rocketing you.

The energy sword and the fact that you did a lot of damage to me made me shoot. I was 2 melee hits away from being incapacitated and I’d already let you get 3 or 4 off without retaliating. I had about 2 seconds to either shoot you, who I thought was almost guaranteed to be a traitor or to let you destroy my mech, easily allowing you to kill me.

8

Weak sauce explanations, but I have no more to say. I didn’t ahelp you because I came unprepared and I got out robusted, kind of deserved to die. You spacing me was an ass move but then again, at that point it didn’t even matter, just feel bad for the CMO who actually came to retrieve my corpse in space.

Up to the admins to decide now.

9

i was captain on this round, i came to engineering and i found empty gygax, i think i came with whole squad from sec preparing to go to war, lmao give me medal

10

How exactly are my explanations “weak sauce”. What would you have had me done?

Sit there and let a rather suspicious person take off my headset and cuff me, from my point of view that was exactly what was happening.

Why did you even strip me in the first place?, you still have not explained that bit.

11

I explained, I forgot to take cuffs with me so I was looking for a wire to make cable cuffs, since you were engineer you probably had some.

12

It wouldnt probably that much of a problem if you made mech when there was a known threat to the station, and rogue AI might be considered as such, but from what people in dchat said you made a combat mech ‘before’ AI was rogue, so just powergamed, waited for occasion, killed AI, killed sec and did your shit.

13

I did not kill the AI, I made especially sure to get an intellicard and then hand it over to a security officer.

I’ll simplify my justification for making the mech this round before things went to shit:

1: Roboticists often make combat mechs when there are no immediate threats just because why not if they have plenty of materials. I had nothing to do in engineering so I acted as a roboticist and made a mech for the fun of it.

2: I remember some PR getting merged that changed some power coefficient with the Gygax mech, I wanted to see if I could notice a difference when using it in comparison to before.

Also, I didn’t JUST make an exosuit fabricator to immediately rush out a mech to use it the second the opportunity arose to use it. I made 12 or so bluespace miners, a full chemistry set, upgraded the ORM.

I’ve seen lots of other people make combat mechs without immediate threats simply because they felt like it. I’ve never heard or seen anyone be punished for this ever. Since most jobs are generally allowed to make whatever they want from their job. Geneticists can hulk themselves, xenobiologists can make some robust slime extracts I assumed roboticists can make mechs for themselves.

I was not a round start roboticist but I had no current job to do and I set up a lot of material, I decided why not set up a mech since mechs are cool and fun.

I can accept not making combat mechs as an engineer before shit goes down in the future, but then what is with this ban reason.

As engineer, built a combat mech by himself, armed it with guns and then used it to break into AI sat to card rogue AI. AI caused some mess on the station, but security was alive and there was no immediate threat to the station.

Are they also saying that it is no longer allowed to fight antagonists as non-security when they threaten you as well? are you no longer allowed to attempt to stop a rogue AI?

@Piterskiy

14

not really i didnt put you at any risk

i was new to rog ai so i didnt know what to do i couldnt flood i couldnt do shit other than bolt doors so i just, gave up

15

If you were not new you could have easily caused a lot of damage.

I had no way of knowing this in game. This is OOC information that you could not have expected me to know. Even if you said it in game, you totally could be lying.

You acted like most rogue AI’s do, you turned off communications immediately which made me think you were competent at it, then the mention of plasma flood someone said and a I saw a few shocked doors, which people claimed you did.

Everything that you did that I saw pointed to you being a competent and dangerous rouge AI that was a massive threat to the entire crew.

16

I’ve done some thinking about it.

I’ve always seen mechs as more of a research item, like how botanists can make plant bombs, geneticist make hulk and how xenobiologists make robust slime extracts.

Except to anyone on the outside what I did will look a lot like powergaming since as an engineer I made a mech just for the heck of making a mech before anything went wrong. Like I wanted to just wait for valids to use said mech against.

So I’ll avoid making combat mechs before shit goes down in the future as a non-roboticist. I seriously didn’t think this was powergaming, more just making cool shit like science normally does.
In the future I’ll make a Ripley or something if I feel like mechs.

Seriously though, Piterskiy, could you not have just taken the time to just say that mechs as a non-roboticist before an issue comes up is powergaming so I would know not to do it again. That’s all you had to say to make me not do it again as I’m not a troll. 2 Days for this is excessive, I’ve always tried to avoid doing things I knew was powergaming and I’m wrong once and its a 2 whole day ban.

17

@admins
Why no one is responding to this

18

That’s the forum admins group. Not the game-admins group. Sometimes it takes time to get to appeals. Please be patient.

Edit: Giving my quick opinion

Yeah… You shouldn’t even be doing this. Especially since you were making a combat mech BEFORE you knew there was a major threat.

20

Yeah, I get that now, except that is not what Piterskiy banned me for nor did they EVER say that.

I’m pretty damn sure thats the only rule I broke, which is moderate powergaming. Should have made a Ripley or something Odysseus.

I do not think this is worthy of a 2 day ban at all.