in game modes like that you’re not roleplaying with the nukies or the threat, you’re roleplaying with the crew. Trying to speak to a nukie won’t end well but you can still explore the life threatening situation you’re in with the crew around you
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Nuke ops is more fun than doing nothing for an hour. Pure RP and nothing else is pointless if that RP is boring and dull, there needs to be a balace and better RP shouldn’t lead to less enjoyment of the game.
A bad solution to these problems may solve that one specific problem, but ignore other factors - It’s very easy to make the game more oriented aroud RP, however it is very difficult to make that fun, engaging or whatever at the same time.
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Game design is indeed hard. 
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Do you feel baited?
You have to admit that tdm railroads people into kill or die mentality that leaves little room for roleplay.
Sadly this is what people do in most cases and this is a fact.
Glad we agree that there is a problem.
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Part of it is certainly the gamemodes(war ops is an easy example).
Part of it is the vicious antag/security cycle.
Cult doesn’t RP cause it knows if they try to RP with sec during the crackdown they’re due to get their shit kicked by sec wordlessly.
Sec doesn’t RP cause it knows if they try to RP with the cult as part of the crackdown they’ll get their shit kicked by the cult wordlessly.
Rinse/Repeat with other antags.
Part of this is the rampant valid thirsty sec attitude. We need to get a proper policy page(like silicon policy) for security and punish violations harshly via OOC methods. We need to be limiting them because security going berserk affects more than just antags.
Reworking our alerts and the meaning is part of this. People exploit the alerts as an excuse to powergame within sec. This gets worsened by the abridgment of SOP around elevating the alert level, since you can just say “Blue alert now” over sec comms and it gets raised without a vote.
If blue alert means there’s no confirmed antagonists, just possible threats, why are lethal weapons from armory allowed?
This doesn’t fix all the issue of alert level though. Part of it is the intense meta gaming around it. You hear someone getting attacked in maints, or hear rumor someone tried to break in somewhere, blue alert goes up, even if it’s just some average criminal. We need to start taking a hard line on that as well.
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I don’t get why you focus on sec here. Sec is valid to antags at all time, have worse gear than said antags and are expected to figth said antags.
Where I’m getting at is, sec is the underdog in most match - ups and if they loose, they face round removal, antags on the other hand gets…a brig time.
Yeah, I’m all for RPing, but getting the EMP + DESWORD / cult dagger / armblade in maints without any kind of RP is soooooooo fun, and foster good RP.
Both sides are at fault here, and sec is already pilled up with a shitton of rules (SPACELAW / SOP).
Litterally, do you know why sec goes for le wordless shotgun during cult raids? If they don’t cult will EMP / bola / shard them without a word.
In my experience, both sides are too afraid to RP, sec is afraid to get round removed for trying to do their job. Antags don’t want to get their gamer gear and greentext taken away.
Thank you for reading my rant, and maybe start slowing down the amount of bullshit antags can pull out without RPing, it would actually make it much better (looking at you, silent meth grenade throwers; you’re soooooooo fun)
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Because I’m tired of seeing sec toe the line and bend the rules.
Sec has the benefit of numbers.
They’re also meant to be more limited due to the fact that they’ve got laws and such to follow.
This doesn’t even get into the meta gaming or other rule bends.
I’m sure antags are tired of you security doing the same. Escalating to blue alert at even the slightest hint and loading up on all the equipment you can want from armory. Finding them and wordlessly engaging them.
Ah yes, the space law and sop that we see security abridge at best and flat out disregard at worst.
And this is why cult will do what they always do.
And antags are afraid to get round removed for trying to do any sort of gimmick while avoiding conflict with sec. This is why people just stealth. Even if you try to involve others sec just shows and wordlessly engages. I’ve seen it happen.
Also guess what? Every other person is liable to be round removed for doing their job at best, or for winding up being selected as a target arbitrarily at worst.
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Well, then. Let’s agree to disagree.
Shitsec exists, shit antags exists.
But I’m convinced you can’t tackle such a problem by hitting one side and letting the other keep doing what they do.
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Part of the idea is we remove one leg of the cycle to stop it. Security loves to push boundaries in ways beyond not RPing with antags, so they’re a clearer place to start.
Most antags who don’t immediately engage either hide or try to blend in which while meh blending in often means they just roleplay as normal.
Sec has to come first as a matter of logical order to fix the issue. Limiting antags from harming sec and pushing for RP won’t get anywhere, since they’ll double down on it with sec constantly jumping down their throats.
This won’t just mean gimping sec, but they’ll be the first to get the OOC punishments, encouraging antags to report if any of the previously mentioned happens when they try to be gimmicky.
But if we want antags to change we need to get through to them that they can do funny gimmicky shit without sec immediately jumping to wordless application of force.
From there, once we can start pushing antags like we did sec. Encouraging sec to start reporting antags for wordlessly using their tools against sec when sec tries to RP.
Hopefully this makes it all a bit more logical.
If you’re trying to be smart i have more contributions than you
And yeah I’ll probably open a pr to shift some things around
Ayo get coding 
I see what you mean. And in a perfect world I agree, I would be willing to see how it goes, but I feel that some antags will abuse it non-stop. Especially midrounds (Ninja RP? Abductor RP?).
There’s also a lot of work to do on antags, not just sec.
Ninja objectives are flexible so it’s really easy to rp
And its rarely if Ever done.
I tried many Times it Always ends with ninja ignoring me at best, or teleporting to me and using their broken kit to round remove me.
Why would they RP when they get a soft murderbone pass with their abduct objective and a kit sec cant match except if they escalate to Chem Warfare(and praying the ninja doesnt just teleport out or dodge everything with meth speed).
Seriously, in my hundreds of sec hours, RPing ninjas can be counted on one hand.
Or let me extend on non lethals.
All sec non lethal options get taken out for more than a figth duration by EMPs, a cheap widely available option, be it as maint loot or antag gear.
Getting EMPed means you run or die(if at all possible.
And you Cant radio for help, nor can your body be found due to sensors being taken out), unless you have a shotgun.
So fun.
I love having to grab a shotgun to deal with cult/lings/traitors/random dude who mix two beakers.
epic. bring devils back then because:
(yes I did cut off the rest of it)
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Weirdly enough I’ve seen Ninjas RP a good amount.
Mostly because they’re one of the few antags that gets to be friendly to crew. Granted part of that comes down to what type of ninja gets rolled(NT generally being more friendly)
Abductors can’t even talk. Admittedly there’s not much to fix there, aside from really bringing the hammer on ones who go crazy with stunning people.
Also both ninja’s and abductors are one track minds. They’re absolutely shit for RP, and don’t even provide the benefit of providing fun for multiple people(which at least gives xenos a pass).
Some antags may just need to be disabled at least during the transitory period.
Yeah sec needs a less powerful backup non lethal that can’t be EMP’d.
The telebatons may make a nice choice.
Or have it be more random about what gets disabled.
rn, everything but pepper spray get Taken out.
If you would randomly still have our baton or disabler resist the EMP it would be more fun and fairer than suddenly being powerless for up to a minute