I disagree with the way trial admins are handled

Grab a drink because this is going to be a long one…

So because of recent leaks, we have become aware on a public level on the requirements trial admins face to even remain as such. These expectations are unfair to both the trial admin and the community. For those unaware, I am speaking about the ticket quota.

Now, I understand why this was an attempt as you want to make sure the trial admins are actually doing their duty and handling tickets. Plus the tickets they do handle you could review and see how they perform. Fair enough, however, there is are terrible flaws to this sort of system.

This sort of practice exists in the real world too with police in many places in America. Where police have unofficial quotas for arrests and tickets. Failure to do so can cost promotions, raises, or in some cases even the jobs of the officers. Ever wonder why it’s not uncommon in America for people to be arrested for ‘resisting arrest’ with no other charges to even justify an attempt at arrest? This is why. This is also why many fellow Americans here can tell you what is the worst time to pulled over by a cop. It’s always the end of the month when their quotas are almost due, these are also the tickets that are most likely to be completely unjustified and beaten in court.

But how does this affect Bee? Well, it’s going to be similar in ways. This creates pressures where the trial admin is in a peculiar position. With the high amount, I was told that is required monthly it really seems like an overwhelming amount that can easily make the job performance actually suffer. Rather than having patience and understanding, this will train admins to quickly punish as possible even if wrongly so (much like the police officers) just to get done with it and ensure to meet the qouta. This is both unfair to the trial admin and those that they end up dealing with.

It’s obvious that this has had negative results. For those of us who have been around long enough to remember ltmrdoge you may recall he dominated the ban list when he was a trail-admin. Both the ban list and the appeal list were littered with his bans. I included was one of his victims that successfully appealed along with a horde of other people. I never understood why he did this until now after learning of the quotas. It was his way of handling the ticket requirements as fast as possible willing to be sloppy so he can get back to whatever it was he was doing in the meantime. He would later resign (he also became a laughing stock because of the constant absurd bans) and was never held accountable to this blatantly obvious behavior if you knew of the quotas. I realize few staff members remain from that time. But to the ones that have come after, you don’t have to repeat the mistakes of those who came before you, you can do better here. The first step to fixing this issue is removing the quotas.

This also reveals a new glaring flaw with the practice of authorizing bans. Even beyond ltmrdoge I think everyone here can admit sometimes we see bans from trail admins that should have never happened. Yet they got the go-ahead to do so anyway. This reveals one of two things is occurring.

1: Those responsible for reviewing and judging if a ban should occur or not aren’t actually reviewing it and just saying yes.

2: trial admins aren’t giving the full picture and to my knowledge have never been held accountable for withholding important details during this process.

Both of these are unacceptable and likely both occur to some degree.

But it doesn’t end there, oh no. There are other issues as well,. I realize this is getting long but I will express another before ending this. These quota pressures admins to neglect LRP and focus on MRP. This also reflects real-world police by the way. As I mentioned before it’s not just tickets cops have quotas to give but arrests too. Real-world cops will literally stop patrolling the areas they are ordered to if its a low crime area and go to high crime areas to try to meet their quota.

You can see a former cop talking about this issue here. Ex-Baltimore Cop Michael Wood Exposes Police Culture Of Corruption & Abuse (Interview w/ Cenk Uygur) - YouTube

Likewise, this will encourage and no doubt has encouraged trial admins to stick to MRP because there simply will be more tickets to handle. As you can imagine the practice real-world cops do above isn’t just bad for the part of the community where they hunt for arrests. But it also affects response times and effectiveness in lower crime areas when a crime does occur. Because the officers that should be near, aren’t. The same issue is occurring with the servers. You’ve accidentally been recreating a virtual mirror of the misguided method we see in the real world.

I think some of the solutions to this are obvious while others likely deserve a discussion on how to change it. I strongly urge you rethink this policy, it will be better for everyone in the end.

Your Eternal Princess

  • Zoey

P.S. I disagree

2 Likes

I’ve never heard of this issue before and I don’t know the amount of tickets needed. But I do agree with you that the quota’s American cops have are stupid and if Bee uses them then that’s dumb too.

Edit: Ok so after reading through the comments I’ve learned that Zoey is full of shit and the quota isn’t that much at all.

One hundred tickets a month. This may not sound like a lot for an entire month but remember all the other active admins and trial admins will be taking them too. Mix that with realistic time restrictions because admining the server doesn’t pay the bills and of course admins will want a break to do other things when they do have free time.

Cant say i’ve read that entire essay but a minimum of 100 tickets in one month is absolutely fair.
100/31=4 (rounded up). An avarage round of MRP will have anywhere between 5 and 25 tickets.
It takes all of admining one round per day to easily meet the quota

1 Like

The difference between admin tickets and police officer tickets is that admin tickets don’t always end in bans, just handling problems. Cop tickets are always citations and that sort of shit afaik; still, I appreciate the thread in good faith.

U wot mate.
This is publicly available knowledge

click for proof

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Admin policy is linked in the rules for the server, under the first rule.

So fun fact that may not be widely known even among admins. Only tickets initiated by players count towards an admin’s resolved tickets. Tickets you initiate (Aka, you bwoink someone to ask them what’s going on, or for an explanation related to a player complaint) Do not count toward your tickets resolved. In other words, an admin bwoinking people left and right because they’re looking for a reason to bwoink is gaining zero to their ticket counter.

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Tickets 5, 6, 7 and 8 were all initiated by Cae here, notice how they aren’t reported as tickets completed at all? (Ignore the part where they are resolved before being investigated, it just means he’s not using Bacon’s amazing new ticket panel and is doing it the oldschool way)

  1. Yes this happens sometimes, especially when the only admin on is a trial admin and is a result of not having enough admins to meet the demands of two servers. The only thing we can do is respond via discord and trust one of two things: Trial Admin isn’t lying, we already trust them greatly by the time they get to trial in the first place… or Trial admin is lying and the other player calls them out on it via ban appeal/admin report.

  2. We have not had intentional withholding of information by trial admins before to my knowledge and it would definitely be held against them if found out. However, unintentional withholding of information caused by lack of experience (not knowing to check X, Y and Z) is not held against them no. I’m not sure why it would be :thinking:

Sorry, but that’s the way things be. Don’t expect flawless execution by a team that’s on a “work whenever you feel like” schedule and isn’t being paid for the work they’re putting in. There is more to do than we have hands to cover as it is. I’m sure you’ve seen the player reports category? It’s been about a month behind since April.

I can’t really deny that there are fewer tickets on LRP, but I can tell you that admins, much like players, are going to go to the server they prefer to play on 9 times out of 10.

I know this was already quoted above, but I want to address it specifically:

@TheLegend27 is the first trialmin I’ve ever seen comment on the quota at all. There’s scarcely an admin that doesn’t exceed 200 by voting time - @Isy cleared the requirement in just five days.

If you think 100 is too steep of a requirement, I think you underestimate just how many tickets an admin goes through in any given round… but even in the event the quota isn’t reached, trial admins are usually given an extended trial period, not outright removed unless there are other issues or the inactivity is to the extreme.

2 Likes

100 tickets is like 4 days of playing.

I have 1000 tickets since the new ticket system was implemented a few months ago

Didn’t need to write anything huge. Dumb premise of point is flawed either way.

It’s a quota of tickets dealt with. Not bans.
And as said by ruko. Only ones that come from players are counted.

Looks like Zoey trying to start drama for no reason, as usual.

2 Likes

idk, I think zoey did this in good faith.

Yeah, this is one of the few times Zoey has made a post that isn’t just pissing on everyone else while acting self-righteous, so the sincerity behind this post is much appreciated.

4 Likes

Having some form of measure of activity based on statistics for admins is a requirement to avoid people getting adminship for the wrong reasons, and simply asking that you answer 100 tickets in a month doesn’t sound weird at all to me.

For everyone saying wow thats a huge number, I personally have dealt with 60~ tickets by myself in a single round.

The most I am aware of was in the mid 120s

As far as I know quota is for promotions.

Demotions are either for a strike or glaring inactivity.

So if a trialmeme does not reach the quota he gets to stay as a trialmeme until he does or gets yeeted for one reason or another. Inactivity being one such reason.

I don’t see the problem. Just do the shit at your leisure, you’ll either do enough to get full status or you won’t. If you won’t then you probably don’t have the time to be an admin anyway. If so, why bother?
This quota wasn’t on my mind at all and I don’t see why it should be.

mid 120 tickets in 1 round :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

i sence bullshit too

1 Like

ok lets take a scenario: Trialmin doesnt meet the quota either cause all admins did the tickets before him so there were no left for him and there were small number of tickets in the month, there is nothing the trialmin can do, he was active everyday but everyone was just too fast, he made like 45 tickets. what now?

1 Like

They are a trialmin for a bit longer.

Yeah the 120 was what i heard of, so not sure on that. The 60 was my own experience.

Fake newsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

i mean i was a trialmin, i had like 5-10 tickets a round or something like that. some rounds i only had 1 ticket.