Howluinb Banned by Giggaguy

CKEY: Howluinb

Admin’s CKEY: giggaguy

Is this for both servers or just one? If so, which one: MRP

Ban Type: Server

Ban Length: 2 weeks

Ban Date (MM/DD/YYYY): 07/14/2021

Round ID: 31325

Ban Reason:
Rolled scientist and proceeded to perform Low RP shenanigans throughout the round, has previous notes pertaining to bad RP

Appeal Reason:
There are several parts of this ban I disagree with, which lead me to believe it was unjustified, overly excessive and should have resulted in only a note in my opinion.

First of all, “has previous notes pertaining to bad RP” refers to a single note, medium severity. Let me imgur post my notes - (a single one from 6 months ago is excluded, which is that I lost a maxcap to a wizard)

I won’t argue about the note, but it is the only offence of bad RP noted on profile after 400 hours of playtime on sage, and unless I have secret notes stating otherwise (which giggaguy didn’t respond to in the ahelp or salt mines), 2 weeks for a second offence is extremely harsh. The short timespan from the notes also comes from the fact I heavily played command roles (more scrutinized) and that I played very often. this wasn’t a one round every two weeks containing grief from me type of deal.

Now, for the actual round and ban reason itself - I will go over each “major poor rp” behavior i may have had during the round
I joined in roundstart as a scientist, but I had rolled scientist several times already and didn’t uncheck it. Instead of cryoing roundstart because the last thing I’d want would be to accidentally or knowingly antag roll, I tried to find a quick dumb gimmick that could result in my death sooner rather than later. As I wait in HoP line, a bunch of dumb stuff happen with a greytider going around being a typical shithead and over various dumb jokes - to a point where 3 people die (two crushed by a vending machine, perma gibbed, unrevivable even with cloning) before i even get to talk with the HoP, as such a joke went around that the HoP line is a killing factory (for good reasons).
Following the previous round where my character fell in love with the AI - I ask HoP to give me ai and bridge access so I could ask AI on a date, and after a bit of arguing, they tell me to just Law 2 AI and talk to them. Cool. I do so, get into AI sat entrance, at which point AI stops me there and asks me to speak - I ask her out, AI obviously rejects me, i get arrested by sec and go along non lethally, serve the sentence i deserve without sec even needing to cuff me, i pretend do be depressed and go into hopline to tie myself into a noose in order to die - along with another person who I think was a chemist.

While this is not peak RP by my standards, it was still dumb fun for which i willingly tried to not bother/annoy other players over it - the sec officer even found it funny enough to give me 10 seconds in the cell instead of the needed 5 minutes, without me even trying to defend myself. I do not believe I hurt anyone’s RP time on sage from these actions, or that anyone actually had to deal with my stuff with huge annoyance towards me and wanting to kill me on the spot - making this dumb gimmick harmless in my opinion.

Now, I get revived from my suicide and AI instantly takes me to be permaed. Why ? Because Cap had just uploaded robocop lawset onto the AI, early into the shift without confirmed threats , and went along with whatever dumb stuff AI was coming up with to unlegitimate the robocop lawset (Anyone bleeding on the floor is littering and will be brigged ! Committing suicide is perma !). Cap even walked into perma, saw me stuck in there and just didn’t bat an eye as i had to wait for a late join warden to enter perma and get me out after checking out that my story is indeed true. At that point, I decide to stick around in the shift much longer so as to see if the captain would ever get the mutiny they deserve and watch from afar popcorn in hand.

He lets me out, I make comments about wanting to beat up the cap (which I would not do), then talked to a brig phys outside of brig who told me earlier cap was condom.
I start to say cap was a shithead who uploaded robocop and got me permaed, to which the brig phys takes me away in a discreet location while we were talking and reveal they’re an heretic to me and that i’m their target. Surprised by this, they continue on to offer to kill me - but clone me afterwards. I accept but change the deal to make it “kill me, don’t bother with cloning as it might fuck you up and instead promise me to get the cap afterwards” as a sort of devil soul trade - which was also another attempt to get my round ended via not pure suicide but “dumb fun” with an antag who was kind enough to not just flash me and bluespace bodybag me into maints.

I get cloned, lose all of my stuff and pretend to have lost my memories while the chaplain constantly tries to lead me away and get me to come with him (who said while i was dead to have me as my target as they were heretic). After trying to find funny ways to delay the inevitable “i can’t go out naked !” “hmm i feel a bit cold i need a winter coat” which the chaplain went along with, i finally come along with them to a dorm room, where they offer the same deal as the brig phys, but this time, i did not intend to just die again and offer some easy antag victory constantly - so i push them away, run away and tell them that if they want me, they gotta find me and hurt me even once (i was trying to spark a funny hunt so that while not extremely hard for them, they could have fun trying to track me or something), without saying to anyone that they’re bad (because they actually tried to offer me and didn’t just kill me instantly) - they refuse, and instead go away (I suppose it would have been too hard, and in retrospect I understand why)

After a while, I organize a duel and get the chaplain to come to chapel and fight me, fisticuffs style - they can keep the armor while i’m naked, fist only, if they lose nothing happens but if I lose they get to take me, with “judges” on the side overwatching to check if there is any sort of cheating going on. After trying to instantly flash me and the judges saving my ass, I instead offer a “all weapons allowed” duel since they refused the fist style. I beat them up with syndie cards (which i got after understanding they’d have come to kill me if they wanted), get them healed, give their stuff back and go on my way.

Once again, this is RP that did not hurt anyone - I went along with antagonist’s offers so as to improve their enjoyment of the round, while actively trying to spice it up and not just be a “ok antag u win if u get to talk to me lol” type of guy which is indeed bannable.

At that point, I go around looking for something to do, as science has already done a lot of shit, the round is extremely chaotic and everyone is mostly up to doing their own things. I encounter the CE, who was going around vaping that mushroom stuff that makes you giant - making her and everyone standing around her giant, while they went along the station not particularly doing anything.
I follow along, ask them to be giant too which they agree with and ask me to carry them around while they’re giant until they can vape again because it’d be funny to see her lying down but moving so fast as a giant.
We both go into the holodeck, start joking about how big we were and get a few other people to join in the giant stuff, and after a joke i made, i go naked with only a bedsheet on me. As a reminder, I had lost all my stuff after the brig phys sacrificed me, so i had not lost anything of value apart from a jumpsuit. I move around a bit, lose ce of sight, go around the station while people comment on me or how they find it funny to see such a big lizard.

I believe this is the poorest attempt at RP out of the whole shift - that I can agree with - but I believe the circumstances (half the station was falling apart, most people were wandering around not doing anything of particular interest and everyone just finding funny quirks in the game to play along with after cap had already made the station extremely LRP by having to deal with and defend themself from an AI arresting for the smallest of reasons) do help justify it even the tiniest bit - especially the fact that I was not forcefully including myself into others conversations or actively being a hinderance, which is something I always try to avoid.Q

After a longer time, I see the chap getting chased around by HoS. I do something very questionable which was to slip the HoS so as to let the chaplain escape (because, I still owed them one for not outright killing me and even switching targets), at which point the HoS arrests me, says he’s gonna put me in 5 minutes for slipping him, right before the captain arrives to overrule him and get me perma gulagged. I go SSD at this point after an emagged beepsky in lavaland constantly stuns me as I start dying from lack of air, only to come back later (after dinner) to see myself cuffed in the med section of brig, as shuttle leaves.

Now, this is the actual one time during this round where my roleplay actively hindered someone else - which, they apparently didn’t mind as they themselves wanted to give me a light sentence for my crime, which, once again, I was fully going along with and never trying to escape as I knew I had done something punishable.

At this point, giggaguy gets on, reads my ahelp about cap putting robocop lawset near roundstart to the AI and getting me permaed while not batting an eye, replies asking why i ran around as a giant naked lizard - I explain a much more condensed version of this post, explaining I had a hard day and that I acknowledge it was poor RP on my part, but that the circumstances got me to want to blow off some steam and go along with whatever dumb gimmick was being thrown at me - Giggaguy replies that i had previous notes about poor rp recently, i reply that I don’t apart from a single one, he tells me that “Notes are applied where there should have been a ban but wasn’t” (which is outright false, as notes, especially the one about poor rp, were hammered into me to not be punishment and only there for the admin team to know if i’ve done a bad or not) adds that he doesn’t think i’m a good fit for sage and before I can reply, I am banned for two weeks from sage only.

Additional Information:

There’s a few reasons leading to me making this appeal, despite already claiming I would not on the discord #salt-mines channel.
First of all, this ban is going to hang over me for years on the centcom directory due to bee’s public bans, which I heavily disagree with - and the extreme length is going to make whatever server I apply to think that I started murdering for very little RP reasons and only following validity laws or something, or that I am a repeat offender and thus not a fit for them (especially since I want to play on HRP servers)
Second of all, some of my friends still play bee and if I want to share a round with them - I don’t really have a choice, and having a constant damocles’ sword over my head is not going to make me enjoy the server very much at all.

Finally, Although it has no impact on the ban appeal, I want to make a note about admins on bee never ever putting a positive note even for good actions that enhance everyone’s round. I have played command, specifically HoS, extensively with the sole purpose of lowering the high amount of validhunters on station and powergamers in sec, always avoiding execution and allowing a lot of leniency towards antagonists especially ones caught really early (because there’s, like, an actual human behind the screen and them getting fucked and executed ten minutes into the round for a single mistake is just not fun), preferring perma which i got renovated several times (not by me, mind you, I always took care even if it necessitated a lot of asking to ask OTHER departments to come and help out) to make safer but also include dumb fun stuff like a bar with bartending machinery, a fully equipped kitchen, a well equipped botany with proper machinery and all seeds which cannot mutate into weaponry, coming to check on perma prisoners often to let them roleplay with me and not end up bored to death, etc…

While this does not mean that I am not guilty from the actions of this round, the lack of anyone ever noting somebody doing a good rp that improved others round, made gigga think rather logically that i was a poor rp shitter that needs to go to lrp and not bother playing on mrp. Even if my appeal is denied, for the love of god admins, please consider giving more positive notes out, ESPECIALLY if you claim notes are only to have indications of someone’s behavior and aren’t punishments.

Apologies for the extremely long post (12 000 words), but I tried to be as objective as possible in the parts where I wasn’t stating my opinion outright.


Id like to note though that fairly certain the “suck my balls”, my note and the flash bang for bag check note are considerd in the “bad RP notes”

The flash bang for bag check misses the context of being faced with racists medical doctors who refused to hand over their bags after being told to do so - i did give them a bit of time even if it was very short, and I was noted over the usage of flashbangs when i could have just flashed - which was fair. It was not poor roleplay - it was just too much force. (it also wasn’t a standard bag check - they all were med doctors while the criminal wore nytril gloves and I had already checked EVERY other medical personnel, and they were being voluntarily difficult while I was trying to hurry up so as not to lose whoever I was tracking at the time- they were prime suspects)

Your note? It was a confusion IC between me and the acting cap, which devolved because i simply did not understand shit of what he said. It went really wrong, it was entirely my fault for misunderstanding, but it was not poor roleplay.

Even then, gigga never mentioned that when I asked him what other notes apart from the “suck my balls” were considered, both in ahelp and on discord - but I do understand if he considered them, even if I personally wouldn’t. From knowing the context and my own opinion, they’re not bad RP, apart from “suck my balls” - and a major part of why I believe this went wrong is lack of context.

I stand by my descision to keep your ban, and i just want to emphasize Rule M3 especially in this case

Not once did you follow SoP nor have any IC reason as not to, it is understandable that if you accidentally get scientist and didnt wanna play as one you can 1. ask for a job change or 2. cryo.

You wont get punished for cryoing roundstart every once in a while, it is only when it happens frequently that you get punished for it. Instead you decided to go to HoP line and suicide just because you wanted to ask the ai out and they said no? To me that seems like pretending to be mentally deranged for no other reason than to end the round prematurly while keeping a job slot occupied.

The fact that you slipped a officer doing thier job didnt help, nor the fact that you ran around as naked as a big lizard, as for the captain setting laws and other incidents that were reported they were dealt with, but there were people that werent happy at all of your behaviour and found them heavily disruptive.

as for the case with your note history, the fact that you had racked up 5 notes within 10 days is pretty abnormal, 3 of them are for roleplay(the HoS one would need further elaboration), notes are a tool for admins to keep track whetever a rule break was made, and in most cases if you have a overall clean note record you will only get punished with a note. Keep in mind that notes are placed when a rule was broken, the fact that you had broken 5 rules within 5 days was enough for me to conclude that another note would be uneccesary and a ban should be in place.

I will leave this appeal open until other admins have left their input into this thread.


Even if you believe a ban or not should have been necessary, my notes weren’t indicative of terrible (note that i didn’t say poor, i mean TERRIBLE) rp behavior and during that round the most I may have done was disrupt the immersion of other players (along with a few other people) and slipped sec, while not attacking them.

For a first offence, a first ban in 400 hours, with notes gotten quickly because i played near constantly as a head of staff thus being under much more scrutiny and judged more harshly, where admins told me that some of them weren’t punishment and only there to note that something happened ,

a TWO WEEKS ban is overly excessive, and it should have been, in my opinion, at worst a 3 days ban or a day ban, at best a note.

I’ve seen people get RP banned for the general same amout of time, for having the gimmick of being constantly racist and actively discriminating against other players based on ic race, being ACTIVELY DETRIMENTAL to other players enjoyment of the game through their RP all throughout.

I killed myself at hopline after trying to date ai, got abducted by heretics and made a fun antag deal for me and them, got cloned and jerked around till i became giant and walked around naked, saved the chaplain whom i owed a favor and got perma gulagged for it.
one of those action caused hos to lose opportunity to make le valid redtext, and the immersion which was broken all throughout by various chaotic factors playing into the round got a bit more broken thanks to me. It was, in my opinion, not nearly as disruptive.

I do believe that i’ve stated enough of my case with twelve thousand words and this very post - so i will refrain from adding more unless directly questioned. My apologies for the walls of text.


Before I get into this I want to note that I was not involved in the ticket itself or the round in question so I may be missing more context not included here. So here’s my thoughts as things are now.

As for completely ignoring their job, they should have done something productive before getting involved in shenanigans on a break instead. This person should not have completely ignored their department or they should have gotten a job change before.

This person should not have suicided in the HoP line because the AI refused them on a date, thats LRP as any sane person (which you should be by rules) would not kill themselves in this sort of situation.

The fact that you slipped the HoS to save an antag who did nothing but try to harm you IC (they offered to harm you less if you cooperated) is kinda LRP. You had OOC reason to want to save them but I don’t see why a sane character would want to.

As for running around as a naked lizard, I assume this was after they were freshly cloned and it sounds like they did try to obtain clothes, so I don’t see any problem with this.

About their note history, I dont think its exactly fair to just count the number of total notes. They have had 5 notes recently however they are all for very minor things and they have not repeated similar offenses to anything they have been noted for.

Overall, while during this round they did 3 things worthy of at least a verbal warning by an admin, they never did anything to purposefully ruin others game experiences.

I think this player should have recieved a stern talking to about all of their roleplay infractions and maybe a short ban or a stern note. I think 2 weeks for this is a bit much. The fact that they cared enough to write our a large appeal to me proves they aren’t a shitter and are likely to improve if given proper guidence.

I think this player should in the future keep their head down and try to learn from others roleplay and ahelp before getting involved in shenanigans and give the rules and SOP another good read.

I recommend lowering the bans duration to 2 or so days so it would be over at the current time.

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That is indeed perfectly reasonable to me, and was mostly the intent of my appeal.

I do understand that what I did was LRP behavior and that I should have just SSD’ed if I didn’t enjoy the round - I do not understand the 2 weeks ban as that is, to me, extremely excessive.

I’d still argue it’d be worth only a note if possible, although a severe one with ban on next offence, but a one day ban is indeed definitely much better than just 2 weeks for that. Thanks for the support.

(I’d also like to point out gigga wasn’t here either - he only came right before the shuttle docked at centcom.)

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Ive spoken with other admins about this case and the general consensus is that while the ban was justified the lenght was bit too harsh, on reconsideration 2 weeks is all too much considering your previous history.

Ive set the ban duration to 3 days instead, so the ban should be lifted by now. I will work on my ability to appropriatly set punisments for breach of rules in the future.