Well then, can we hear out council’s argumentation on why not?
You’ll have to try asking them yourself; the only two answers I got when I asked were along the lines of ‘because remove from hub wasn’t an option in the final vote.’
I don’t see why the council isn’t doing anything about the situation. It’s clearly not fine, but they’re treating it as such. The LRP-player dominated council is one of the reasons I attribute to this, as because Bee is an LRP-majority server, MRP tends to get less representation. I liked being on the council while I was, as I could at least try to represent MRP, but as of now, there’s no real council member that has the interests of MRP in mind, or, at least that’s what I think.
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you gotta overrule these guys mydude
Honestly I’m a big advocate for the whitelist idea, and really if we had implemented it sooner MRP wouldn’t have been like this, as in it would have still had the tide but not as bad as it is
Also Flakky the reason a lot of people got mad was they bypasses the council and said it wasnt right so it’d turn into a “don’t bypass the council because democracy, except when we want you to”
I guess I’m a little bit biased since I was there for the low pop MRP days, but I at least want roleplay rules enforced if anything else, if the whitelist/panic bunker is off the table
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Bee Station MRP has three main problems.
Antagonist Conduct
I brought this up in a post I made, “[MRP] Murderbone, Hunting, and General Antagonist Behaviour]” I’ve changed my opinion since then but it mostly represents what I believe. Antagonists should be allowed to be enemies of the station.
Let me list of some of my favourite antagonist rules from differing servers:
“True “friendly” antagonists are not allowed. You’re an enemy of the station, do your objectives. This doesn’t mean you can’t act friendly or even cooperate with the crew when the need or opportunity of the arises, but in the end you are still the antagonist and should act as such.”
And
“Murderboning is a form of bad sportsmanship. You will not be directly punished with bans for doing it, but admins can and will incentivize you to refrain from doing it. They may call the shuttle early, or send an ERT team to stop you. They may give certain advantages to the crew, or take away certain advantages from you – if admins notice that you repeatedly murderbone every round, or even a majority of rounds, they reserve the right to ban you from antag roles anyway.”
Thse two antagonist conduct rules are my two favourite. Antagonists must act like, well, antagonists. And the murderbone rule is to safeguard those who go on an axe rampage.
Greytide
No other server has a problem with greytide like Bee Station. Look everywhere and you won’t find them. That’s because of,
“Murder, attempted murder, mutiny, rioting, theft of a restricted weapon, breaking and entering, sabotage, and grand theft are all considered to be self-antagging.”
this. This ruling. Of course exceptions can be made, like breaking into genetics to clone someone. But breaking into cargo just to accept an order you made? Or, breaking into anywhere else just because you want to? That’s kinda antaggy.
Role-Play
MRP is filled with silent Gordon Freemans all running around the space station contributing nothing. After playing mime for awhile you notice that no one wants to talk and usually people wonder the halls aimlessly rather than being social. This isn’t, “Muhhh role-play muhh character anti-social,” it’s honestly anti-social people being scared to type a response.
Don’t know how we can fix the crippling autism people have. I’m sure the council will think of something – we all know them to be a social bunch that love conversation and treat their role very, very seriously.
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I have been enforcing breaking and entering as antagonistic on MRP every time I catch it. If I wasn’t supposed to be, I haven’t been corrected yet. I make exceptions during times of crisis i.e. breaking into medical while dragging someone critically injured in an attack, or breaking into maint before a radiation storm with a missing or incompetent AI.
there’s no real council member that has the interests of MRP in mind
I feel this, but I’m also biased. I’ve always been exclusively MRP. I don’t know if it’s bias or truth speaking when I feel like this
Breaking and entering isn’t expressly against server rules on Sage. What it is breaking is rule 3 - roleplay
Your character is a grown adult working on a research station for a major company. You are a professional. Act like it.
Point being if botany wants access to advanced tech storage to gather things required to run botany at a high level, they should act like professionals first. Ask the AI/engineering for access, get additional access from HOP. Going through proper chains and interacting with other departments is supposed to force roleplay between crew members. After your “professional” options have been exhausted then you can break in under penalty of space law.
I’m not for banning petty crimes, they give security something to do. If only antags are allowed to break space law at all, the meta will eventually turn into sec knowing that someone breaking in is probably an antag. I do agree that people breaking in or assaulting as their first impulse/reaction to something on sage should be against the rules and bannable. That is the core difference between LRP and MRP and the line isn’t understood or followed by at least half the player base in my opinion.
I personally think that Sage should be soft-whitelisted or detached from the hub. Last night I had a guy with 15 minutes play time use a circular saw to try and kill a clown before they even knew how to talk in game. The way Sage is listed and advertised makes it seem just as new player friendly as Golden and it shouldn’t. We are talking about enforcing mass bans to get the servers back on track, but with the sheer number of incidents every round on Sage a whitelist is much more appropriate than a blacklist.
For reference in the past three nights alone, I have resolved <10 Golden tickets and >70 Sage tickets. And I spent two of those nights on Golden and one on Sage.
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Honestly I feel like MRP is at its best when it still allows for people to be goofy but still holding people to an RP standard.
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Exactly. That is the dream. I love roleplay, and if I could find the right environment for HRP I’d do it. But with so many people contributing it tends to become very rigid and stale. Bee is at its best when it is a mix of memes, shitposting, robustness, and roleplay. MRP is just supposed to be the best even mix of all play styles.
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Yes, exactly. To be more specific, MRP shouldn’t let you be an ooga booga greytiding caveman but you shouldn’t be punished for not being Herriman from Foster’s Home levels of serious.
i want to see MRP enforced at all
MRP basically was best when the highest pop it would hit was like, 25. That was true MRP.
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“Your character’s actions and feelings in-game should be based solely on your character’s experiences and not your own as the player. It is also encouraged to use role play dialogue before making split decisions such as using lethal force against another character”
At the top of the rules lies this quote, however in my short time back I’ve noticed that it’s becoming harder somehow to enforce this along with Rule 3 on the Rules tab. It’s hard to enforce “roleplay” as most people are silent throughout the round until they interact with others or are forced to react as Ruko pointed out near the beginning of this topic. I come from HRP communities in other games, and we have the benefit of the game itself being round based and a good way to have it automate different scenarios (antags, random events) and characters to play as (Perks etc etc), but that requires a community based around roleplay to achieve and a whitelist to keep away those that aren’t interested.
We seem to have two communities trying to coalesce into one server which is creating this conflict in the first place. We have those that play the game SS13, not as a character but for the fun and goof and on the other those that would enjoy the real opportunity to play characters and have in game shenanigans produced not by OOC knowledge but by their job title and their in-game interactions.
Whitelist would help the enforcement issue and weed out those that aren’t genuinely interested in the purpose of the server.
That was actually a really good round, the people I had with me as we raided the cult who all cooperated and actually followed orders which was great.
While I do understand your concerns, there has been a lot of rulings to make MRP more MRP-like. Just because this one proposal got shot down does not mean that the current player Council does not have the server’s best interest in mind. You might ask, then where does the problem lie? Well, frankly, I don’t know. I would have fixed it by now if I did.
The arguments against a whitelist from the Council discussion channel can be summed up as:
- A lightweight whitelist is as good as a pop-up asking whether you’re 18 or not
- An MRP server does not and should not require a heavy vetting process
- Intentionally lowering a server’s population so that the other one can thrive is unfair/unethical
Regarding the no-hub option, it was actually in the vote. It just didn’t garner enough supporters to pass to the 2nd vote (which ended up being between yes-hub no-whitelist and yes-whitelist no-hub.)
Another vote regarding this may be processed in the near future, though it’s in bad faith to do it so soon after one another.
Back when I was active, the biggest problem I had with the rules as they were was that if someone B&Ed into your department, and you assblasted them instead of calling security, the admins would fucking ban you. This basically meant that the admins were constantly on the side of greytiders, because you couldn’t really get banned for greytiding.
Now I get that ‘scientist murders man with screwdriver for unscrewing windows’ isn’t exactly MRP, but security still isn’t really all that competent on MRP. You can bolt down the standards for security, but nobody wants to play security because it’s pretty thankless and probably has the greatest risk for getting bwoinked if you do it wrong. It seems like the best option is, as above, to make unwarranted B&E bwoinkable.
I do completely disagree with the recent council ruling that pretty much absolutely stops murderboning even when it makes sense; apparently a traitor can no longer use maxcaps to sabotage the station, or sabotage nanites, or release a disease, or sabotage atmospherics, which is all pretty ridiculous. Like, I get that people don’t like being mass murdered by a super competent antag, but it’s so hugbox that a traitor can’t employee mass sabotage if it helps them accomplish their goal. It’s a shitty patch to make gameplay on MRP more stable by kneecapping traitors because half the station is retarded.
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Non-antags that break into places without justification absolutely should be bwoinked and it’s shameful that this isn’t the ongoing case already. I can see someone breaking into EVA because they will literally die if they don’t get a spacesuit due to the condition the station is in. But anyone who does it to greytide should just recieve a few day ban.