Horder ban appeal

Ban Appeals Game Appeals
1

CKEY: horder

Admin’s CKEY: aeder1

Is this for both servers or just one? If so, which one: one

Which server did the ban happen on? Sage

Ban Type: Server

Ban Length: 2 weeks

Ban Date (MM/DD/YYYY): 2020-04-16 20:04

Round ID: 14737

Ban Reason: Rapid syringe gun full of nerotoxin “for self defence”. Do not collect dangerous items, weapons, or tools “just in case”. https://beestation13.com/rules?server=bs_sage

Appeal Reason: Hello, according to this, i was banned, because i broke rule 9. No Powergaming.
In short, i think this ban is unjustified, because rule say “As a non-security & non-command crewmember, you’re not an experienced soldier…”, but i was one of command, Chief medical officer. First line of defense in medical. In my opinion, i am exempted from this rule (or at least most from it) when playing command role . Also, we had changelings and later abductors plus fugitives, so it would have been foolish for me as head, to not have any self-defense.

Additional Information: Neurotoxin is that deadly, insta-killer poison? Not the beast it used to be before patches. Mainly i use it, because it shakes camera, screws brains and forces user to drop weapons, later knocks them out. Rarely, i see someone die from it, definitely not from one 15 units syringe, but it is possible on higher dosages.

In this round, the only time I used it, when abductor tried to kidnap someone from morgue, so I shot him with four syringes and i might missed one and it hit crew, but didn’t not kill him if I recall correctly.

Anyways, sorry if I might misinterpreted this rule and I ll take full responsibility in case that happens.

2

yeah I thought heads of command were exempt, as cmo i always get lexorin and a dexrin even a mentor recommended it for self defense

3

No heads are not exempt from this rule or parts of it.
I.E Do not wear a hardsuit, riot suit, or similar bulky/uncomfortable armor for the entire round.
In the same rule also applies to heads.

Collecting weapons “just in case” as you stated doesn’t matter if you later got to use them validly. Getting it as soon as it was available,before changlings were confirmed, in case you might have needed it later is powergaming.

You are not the first line of defence in medical, that would be security. You are the head of the department and can order around the staff there.

Neurotoxin : Drugs you, makes you dizzy, deals up to 75% brain damage over time, randomly causes you to drop items and take stamina damage. After 5 cycles starts randomly paralyzing your limbs. After 30 cycles deals more brain damage but without limit. After 50 cycles (over 20 units) it has a 15% chance per cycle to give you a heart attack.

You had enough loaded in there to wreck three people.

5

I did not get neurotoxin as soon as game started, i got it after fugitives spawned in far late game, so changelings were already confirmed.

Rapid syringe gun was also late game choice and its main purpose was not to get more lethal doses in target, but to have higher chance to hit target. When you using single shot one, if you miss first syringe shot, you almost done for because you have to focus on how to reload it, while using rapid one version, you get 5 more chances to hit if you miss first choice.

I am not that “good” to go toe to toe with telescopic baton against changeling or even other traitor in meele combat, so I am using range methods. Being cmo makes you very valuable target, not only getting full access to whole medbay, but also most other locations unlocked, like bridge or brig. Also, I can’t trust security babysitting me whole round.

6

Rapid syringe gun cant be rush early round since it is a researched item I thought? Also heads are trained in basic combat, pretty sure that is a current standing thing. That allows them to defend themselves and used a tele-baton if needed, and so that they don’t have to gimp themselves too hard on a rev round.

That said, loading death syringes without in immediate threat to your person is too much. Nearly every shift is a blue shift, it does not mean you can arm up everyshift.

I’d say pull game logs and review say chat. If they at any point said anything in game about defense against the lings or fugitives it should be lifted. If the crew in general was in a panic or openly discussing lings when the syringes/gun were set up, then it could be reduced or lifted. We don’t wanna force people to not defend themselves in the face of immediate and real threats, we want to make sure the path to arming up is roleplayed out and logical for a doctor.

7

I did not say round start

8

Honestly I’ve noticed players get to this kind of issues with the admins(bans, being whacked by the regulars) because of the poor choice of words that they use while speaking to the admin, I’m pretty sure that you were somewhat nervous from the round already and an admin bwoinking you already made it worse. NEVER PANIC ON ADMIN PMs, golden rule, if you dont choose the right words, there might be a misunderstand and you get a ban instead of a note, or maybe nothing.
Make sure to speak properly in admin PMs. I’m pretty sure that since the admin quoted “just in case” you said it. Why didn’t you just tell him why were you actually having the gun with you? It could have gone a lot easier on your side.

9

Whole round to sum up
Started with me being Chief medical officer. The changelings were discovered pretty early that round. Head of security and Captan were asking medbay to make concentrated BZ (to test changelings), so we supplied them. Later, medbay started to pile up with dead, husked bodies(dna was changed, so it was indication, that lings were absorbing ). I did brain extraction on at least 4-5 crewmembers that round. So I was aware that we had changeling threat. My first “weapon/tool” against changelings was mind-reader, also thanks to geneticist, we spread it to other command and security. In mid-late game round fugitives arrived and started breaking in medbay storage. I called security severeal times, but they didn’t respond, so I had to go in action and managed to get 2 arrested with the help from same geneticist. At this point, I realised, that I can’t trust security to help me and i thought I need better fighting tools in case I got mute stinged or security just ignored me like they did with fugitives. So I went to bar/medical autolathe and got neurotoxin with rapid syringe gun. In the late game, I had xray and spotted abductor in morgue with handcuffed victim, so I rushed to it and shot 4 syringes into abductor with intent to save victim.

With growing threat of changelings (husked bodies kept pilling up in medbay), I was also gradually improving my self-defense measures against changelings. Started with mind-reader to spot them, ended it with rapid syringe gun to stun/kill changeling and xray to spot more husked bodies in maints.

10

When reading this side of the story, makes me think that that ban was just because you missed one of the shots or the lings were salty on ahelp"he killed me help admeme". I feel like the admins didn’t understand your side of the story, back again with MAYBE(I can’t be 100% sure because i don’t have any admin powers and can’t see the conversation you had with him either) you just got this ban because you didn’t explain your side properly.
Only constructive criticism here. :+1:

11

Actually, the first bwoink was admin asking me “why are you injecting random people with lethal syringes” or something like that, I thought i was being accused for murdering someone as non-antagonist. Later I realised it was due to rule 9.

12

Do not collect dangerous items, weapons, or tools “just in case”. Do not wear a hardsuit, riot suit, or similar bulky/uncomfortable armor for the entire round.

Use reasonable self-defense; subdue, but do not try to revenge-kill, any assailants.

I mean, you were using reasonable self defense, you’re the CMO, head of departmente of the Medbay, there were lings and you knew that you’re in danger. So you got somehow equipped(syringe gun with neurotoxin) and you didn’t inject random people with it, you literally saw what was happening! Were you supposed to stand there looking at him abducting him? I don’t think so. You didn’t have weapons “just in case”, you had a lucid idea of what was going on around you… From what I read you didn’t get your equipped before the lings were confirmed, you got yourself self defense after people start noticing the lings and bodies start to fall into clumps in Medbay.
If sec totally ignored you or was dead, I don’t see any reason to not be able to get properly equipped and try to help in the big threat going on around the station. I don’t like this rule 9 to be honest.

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13

If there is a confirmed threat, as a head of staff, you can take reasonable precautions, especially as CMO since you will be diving into maint to find dying people (who are often in the middle of being assassinated) and thus a self defence weapon is allowed.

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14

If there is a confirmed threat, as a head of staff, you can take reasonable precautions, especially as CMO since you will be diving into maint to find dying people (who are often in the middle of being assassinated) and thus a self defence weapon is allowed.

Exactly, that’s why I see that either the admin was just in a bad mood or he didn’t explain himself properly.

15

I’ve just woken up. Will be on in about 20 mins and will log dive and get this straightened out.

16

Covering all the points raised here:

  • There were tickets about your syringe gun.
  • Yes this was late into the round, approximately 40 minutes.
  • Gun was researched roughly 5-10 minutes prior to this.
  • You did scale up appropriately with the mind reader before this.
  • You did hit people other than your intended target, but it appears to have been an accident.

I apologise, I was tired of a lot of self-antagging and the key phrase of “just in case” is in the rules. It was a snap decision on my part after only a brief look at logs in game, sorry about that.
Ban in error and exonerated, note and ban lifted now.

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