[Hellomate] - Poor Ticket Conduct

Player Input Staff Reports
1

In-game misconduct:

CKEY: Isy232

Your Discord: Isy#8939

Offender’s CKEY: hellomate

Offender’s In-Game Name (if relevant): its not

Round Number: 39,651, 40,142

Part of Admin/Mentor Conduct Broken (if relevant):

  • Handle tickets respectfully, do not be condescending or aggressive in admin PMs.
  • Any form of bias in dealing with players is not tolerated, favoritism from players or other staff should not weigh in the decision making process.
    (Presumption of guilt for some unknown reason).

Incident Description:

Indicent 1: (39651)
I don’t plan to rewrite this situation, I’ll summarize but heres the link:

The issue I have here is that despite me directly telling them in the ticket that I was not intending to EORD and that I instead made a shitty decision, they still banned me for EORDing. They didn’t listen to anything I had to say whatsoever.

Incident 2: (40142)
Again, here’s the link:

The issue I have here is that once again, hellomate didn’t listen to anything I had to say or respond to any of my questions. I tried to engage in conversation to explain why I was not validhunting, however recieved no response from hellomate for 5 minutes until I got a single message “I have decided to ban you” then my connection dropping from being banned 5 seconds later.

I understand in a situation like this it is very difficult to prove what I was or wasn’t doing from the logs. So I tried to explain and ask clarifiying questions to know exactly what information hellomate wanted, however I recieved no responses to any of my own questions or answers. Then, based on suspicion (as proven by Haliris no evidence of my validhunting exists in the logs) they decided to ban me.

Overall, I was snubbed twice in tickets and then falsely banned without evidence.

Additional information:

[Haliris] I don’t blame the mod for banning you. You never really stated your intent IC except for one instance, I had to reread the logs way too many times over this week to come to a proper conclusion.

[Haliris] If you are gonna venture into dangerous territory, as a security officer would, then make sure to explicitely state to others what you intend to do, unless this only involves yourself.

I don’t disagree with all of this, making proving things easier for the admins is always a good idea. However its not exactly realistic to expect someone to monologue to themselves whenever they get into a fishy situation. Its also not an excuse for presuming someone guilty based on suspicion. Its frankly degrading and enraging for guilt to be assumed.

I waited until my ban appeal was resolved in order to post this as it was both critical evidence and its iffy to post an admin report when you have an active appeal.

Yes, I’ve gotten a little emotional but I’m not throwing any insults.
Yes, I’m a little mad.

1 Like
3

To me this really only applies to cap and maybe clown/mime, roles which can find themselves in a wide variety of situations, including those involving antags.
My point wasn’t about monologuing, don’t take our comments regarding RP to the extreme please, it was more about simply telling others about what your character is gonna do, especially if it could lead them into encountering an antag.
I could only corroborate what you stated about wanting to go to space to check on damage thanks to one partial sentence said at a random time. Needless to say, I would have missed it during the live round.

5

I absolutely respect you but you have a tendency to stretch tickets WAY more than needed, bombarding me with paragraphs of text when it’s clearly not necessary.

I don’t need to delay the round for 15 minutes just to really make sure that throwing an hellfoam grenade on the escape shuttle was bad.

We discussed the necessary amount of time for me to understand your reason (which can be proven in the logs).
However it was clear to me that in that case you were in the wrong.
We didnt need to make everyone else wait.

6

I’d like for someone to pull the ticket logs for obvious reasons before we continue to argue.

2 Likes
7

gee, its been 2 weeks and the logs still aint pulled…

1 Like
9

There’s a rather large backlog for headmins to work through currently, be patient.

11

Alright. This is going to be a bit messy due to the multiple rounds used in the report. To try and keep things somewhat organized, I’m going to split my processing into two separate posts. Starting with the first report…

Round 39651:

After reviewing the incident, it appears that the final outcome came down to poor timing and inexperience over malice/bias.

Getting into the logs… We first have the initial report (reporter redacted):

Report

ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #25: /(living teratoma (802)): Accoding to what I can see from chatlogs, Reginald Nehling fired a hellfoam grenade inside the shut - heard by 5 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
ADMINPRIVATE: PM: HelloMate/(Donk Corp Ballers)->/(living teratoma (802)): i’ll look into it
ADMINPRIVATE: PM: HelloMate/(Donk Corp Ballers)->/(living teratoma (802)): was the shuttle being hijacked by someone?
ADMINPRIVATE: PM: /(living teratoma (802))->HelloMate/(Donk Corp Ballers): Yes, but in my opinion, that doesnt justify the use of a hellfoam grenade that results in mass collateral, including killing of several members of command.
ADMINPRIVATE: PM: /(living teratoma (802))->HelloMate/(Donk Corp Ballers): A good question is also why he had a hellfoam grenade launcher in the first place.
ADMINPRIVATE: PM: HelloMate/(Donk Corp Ballers)->/(living teratoma (802)): yeah, they were a changeling. Still very bad

Then we have your ticket interaction, which does include you being the first to contact us. Although given the report was just before you reached out, you would have been pinged anyways.

Ticket interaction

ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #26: Isy232/(Reginald Nehling): Shuttle was aboutta be hijacked and I fired a hellfoam, did I do a bad? - heard by 5 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
ADMINPRIVATE: PM: HelloMate/(Donk Corp Ballers)->Isy232/(Reginald Nehling): Yeah, that’s not allowed. Can’t EORG until you get credits
ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Isy232/(Reginald Nehling)->HelloMate/(Donk Corp Ballers): Well, I didnt mean to EORG, the shuttle was about to be hijacked and I wanted to prevent that from occuring, and well, I only had one method to do so
ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #26: Isy232/(Reginald Nehling): Are shuttle hijacks equivalent to cult summons as in it'd in roleplay "kill everyone so massive force is justified"?
ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #26: Isy232/(Reginald Nehling): The attempt was not to EORD, but to prevent the hijack, and well, fuck I knew there'd by some others getting hit by it but holy shit I killed half the shuttle
ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #26: Isy232/(Reginald Nehling): Anyways, Uhm, are shuttle hijacks equivalent to cult summons in the do whatever it takes to prevent or not?
ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #26: Isy232/(Reginald Nehling): I only had like, 5 seconds to think about it, so please be lenient with how this goes
ADMINPRIVATE: PM: HelloMate/(Donk Corp Ballers)->Isy232/(Reginald Nehling): Right, however, this is still not allowed. Doesn’t matter if it’s hijacked on not. I’ll issue a one day ban
ADMINPRIVATE: hellomate/(Donk Corp Ballers) has created a global temporary 1 day server ban for Isy232. Reason: Threw an hellfoam grenade on the escape shuttle. EORG starts when the round ends, not on the escape shuttle.

For the interaction, I felt that Hello was reasonably respectful throughout. Although, they were admittedly fairly short. I believe this comes down to inexperience at the time, not because they held any form of negative bias towards you. This is reinforced by the discussions that were taking place behind the scenes:

ASAY discussion between Hello and Daridine

ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Daridine/(Rhea I) “Hello did you delay yet?” (CentCom Recovery Ship (196, 79, 1))
ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: hellomate/(Donk Corp Ballers) “question, i should not treat it differently because isy was a mod right?” (CentCom Recovery Ship (198, 84, 1))
ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: hellomate/(Donk Corp Ballers) “like harsher punishment” (CentCom Recovery Ship (198, 84, 1))
ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Daridine/(Rhea I) “WAS* So treat it normally” (CentCom Recovery Ship (196, 79, 1))
ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: hellomate/(Donk Corp Ballers) “not a thing right?” (CentCom Recovery Ship (198, 84, 1))
ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Daridine/(Rhea I) “PLus they did let us know ahead of time” (CentCom Recovery Ship (195, 81, 1))
ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: hellomate/(Donk Corp Ballers) “does hijack stop your objectives from being marked as complete?” (CentCom Recovery Ship (198, 84, 1))
ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: hellomate/(Donk Corp Ballers) “i'll ask on discord i guess” (CentCom Recovery Ship (198, 84, 1))
ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Daridine/(Rhea I) “I'd say” (CentCom Recovery Ship (196, 85, 1))
ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Daridine/(Rhea I) “They should get a day ban for EORG pre” (CentCom Recovery Ship (196, 85, 1))
ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Daridine/(Rhea I) “Prep” (CentCom Recovery Ship (196, 85, 1))
ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: hellomate/(Donk Corp Ballers) “alright!” (CentCom Recovery Ship (198, 84, 1))
ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Daridine/(Rhea I) “Unless antag, I'm pretty sure” (CentCom Recovery Ship (196, 85, 1))
ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Daridine/(Rhea I) “I'm pretty sure they don't lose if the shuttle is hijacked” (CentCom Recovery Ship (196, 85, 1))
Aug 1, 2022 @ 19:34:49.592 ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Daridine/(Rhea I) “Anyway, if they don't have notes” (CentCom Recovery Ship (196, 83, 1))
Aug 1, 2022 @ 19:34:53.327 ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Daridine/(Rhea I) “Just warn em heavy” (CentCom Recovery Ship (196, 83, 1))
Aug 1, 2022 @ 19:34:56.538 ADMINPRIVATE: hellomate/(Donk Corp Ballers) has created a global temporary 1 day server ban for Isy232. Reason: Threw an hellfoam grenade on the escape shuttle. EORG starts when the round ends, not on the escape shuttle.

If an admin took everything a player told them at face value, we’d have significantly more problems. Based on the contextualized evidence, the admins assessed the situation and determined that your response was not reasonable for the circumstance. I do not believe malice nor bias played any part of this ruling.

The ban reason was updated a day later (before this report was created) to better summarize the situation and to remove the EORG portion of the ban.

Aug 2, 2022 @ 13:01:25.005
ADMINPRIVATE: HelloMate/(Joseph Alexander Willey) has edited a note for Isy232 made by HelloMate from Banned from the server for 1 day - Threw an hellfoam grenade on the escape shuttle. EORG starts when the round ends, not on the escape shuttle. to Banned from the server for 1 day - As captain, threw an hellfoam grenade on the escape shuttle (hi daniel, which is very small) in order to stop an hijack. This resulted in many casualities. This is not allowed.

Resolution:

No actions will be taken.

1 Like
13

Round 40142

Ticket Interaction

Aug 28, 2022 @ 18:22:56.498
ADMINPRIVATE: PM: HelloMate/(Lara-Lara)->Isy232/(Reginald Nehling): Hello! could i ask you why you were patrolling space with a jetpack while security was alive?

Aug 28, 2022 @ 18:23:50.554
ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #9: Isy232/(Reginald Nehling): A minute please

Aug 28, 2022 @ 18:26:52.197
ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #9: Isy232/(Reginald Nehling): Given the fact that a vast amount of the station had exploded seconds before and we were under a red alert, I thought that was enough justification to get involved myself

Aug 28, 2022 @ 18:27:27.719
ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #9: Isy232/(Reginald Nehling): I also wanted to assess the station damage, especially to the brig and AI satellite

Aug 28, 2022 @ 18:28:09.491
ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #9: Isy232/(Reginald Nehling): By the time I went into space, the guy who was reported to be a syndicate in space had already been detained

Aug 28, 2022 @ 18:28:26.676
ADMINPRIVATE: PM: HelloMate/(Lara-Lara)->Isy232/(Reginald Nehling): but there were quite a few alive security members at that time, why did you specifically go to space yourself?

Aug 28, 2022 @ 18:28:56.068
ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Isy232/(Reginald Nehling)->HelloMate/(Lara-Lara): The guy was already caught, I wanted to see the station damage, specifically to the armoury and AI satellite

Aug 28, 2022 @ 18:29:16.396
ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Isy232/(Reginald Nehling)->HelloMate/(Lara-Lara): To decide if a shuttle call was necessary

Aug 28, 2022 @ 18:29:17.051
ADMINPRIVATE: PM: HelloMate/(Lara-Lara)->RiqueGamePlays/(Julius Wright): but why did your character do that?

Aug 28, 2022 @ 18:29:54.386
ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Isy232/(Reginald Nehling)->HelloMate/(Lara-Lara): From my understanding, the captain is allowed to get involved personally under red alert conditions

Aug 28, 2022 @ 18:30:27.844
ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #9: Isy232/(Reginald Nehling): Previously, I was told off for getting involved under less than red alert conditions, however given the extent of the damage I thought it would be fine in this context

Aug 28, 2022 @ 18:31:47.721
ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #9: Isy232/(Reginald Nehling): Anyways, this time I didnt even head out to deal with a perpetrator, I just wanted to assess damage to see if a shuttle call was needed

Aug 28, 2022 @ 18:32:49.279
ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #9: Isy232/(Reginald Nehling): To my understanding, it would have been fine to deal with a perpetrator under red alert circumstances, if I'm wrong please do correct me and I'll avoid making such a mistake in the future

Aug 28, 2022 @ 18:33:28.381
ADMINPRIVATE: PM: HelloMate/(Lara-Lara)->Isy232/(Reginald Nehling): the captain is allowed to help, but you were not needed in space, trying to hunt that antagonist. You were already warned about hunting antags as captain with the jetpack. Also, some of the language you used ("I know because TTV's have a radius of 6 and syndiebombs of 5." was too metagamey. Since you were already warned for this, i'll issue a ban.

Aug 28, 2022 @ 18:33:38.409
ADMINPRIVATE: HelloMate/(Lara-Lara) has created a global temporary 3 days server ban for Isy232. Reason: Validhunting as captain. You were warned multiple times about using your captain gear to validhunt, especially when security is alive and available. Please don’t do it.

Aug 28, 2022 @ 18:33:52.991
ADMINPRIVATE: HelloMate/(Lara-Lara) has created a global temporary 1 week role ban from 1 roles for Isy232. Roles: Captain Reason: Validhunting as captain. You were warned multiple times about using your captain gear to validhunt, especially when security is alive and available. Please don’t do it.

To be honest, I could go either way on this one. As it’s been said a few times, it’s basically impossible to prove intent. As a general guideline, the captain shouldn’t really ever leave the station itself unless it’s absolutely necessary. You’re one of the most important roles on the station, so dipping out to space to do a damage assessment is a bit silly; especially when you have staff to do that for you (Engineering in particular would have been preferable here).

You do have multiple notes pertaining to validhunty behavior in the past, doing roughly the exact same thing you were doing here; so, I can’t really fault Hello for making that assumption.

Resolution:

My final judgement mirrors Haliris to a degree. I find the circumstances suspicious, even with the round contextualized, and would have preferred if you utilized your staff over risking yourself in space. I also failed to find any hard evidence of validhunting behavior, but, you have a long history of acting beyond your assigned role.

Given that Hello was a moderator at the time, I do think their assessment of the situation was reasonable given their level of experience and the information they had access to. I personally believe that if the same thing were to happen today, they would approach the situation differently.

Because I was unable to find any indication of malicious bias in Hello’s handling, and because the ban was already overturned, I will not be taking any added actions.