Title: [Offender’s CKEY] Player Report
CKEY: CrackRocks
Your Discord: Crack
Offender’s CKEY: Halinder
LRP or MRP server: MRP
Offender’s In-Game Name: Don't Remember
Date (MM-DD-YYYY): 3/6/2020
Round Number: 13206
Rules Broken: Self antagged as AI, helped the devil murder bone.
Incident Description: Halinder was AI that round, he waited until the devil was max tier and then he let the devil into the brig, where the devil proceeded to kill everyone. AI did this after trying to break a prisoner out of perma, and was just an all around dick, caused the whole station to get destroyed by the devil. Basically was actively helping the devil antag.
Additional Information:
Aside from some of this stuff either being massively overstated or simply not true, lemme break it down:
I talked to the devil several times over the course of that round and found that they didn’t actually hurt anyone and were generally well-received by the crew. Also occurring at the same time was a shitcurity member (not Crack) keeping an assistant permabrigged for grossly exaggerated charges across 20+ minutes (the brig physician kept asking me to help because it was just… an incredibly dumb showing of incompetence).
By the time the Devil ascended, there was literally nothing I could do to stop it. Because it was still being incredibly chill (even the imps, for a little bit, didn’t attack anyone) I asked the devil for help releasing the assistant. It did, and to its credit, DID NOT HARM ANYONE while doing so. As far as I can tell, the Devil did not harm anyone in the brig, the imps did.
Additionally, you imply that I actively followed the devil around opening doors for it and letting it kill people. The only doors I opened for the devil was to make a path to permabrig, during which he and the imps did no harm. Only after Hydrogen III was sprung from the cell and attacked the imps did they start assaulting back, and then I had to open doors for him through the brig to try and help him escape (but he decided to stay in for some reason and go towards you). At that point, the imps went violent and I did my best to contain them by closing firelocks, bolting down shutters, and closing doors on their faces. I remember actively telling a doctor to get out of the way of a firelock so I could close it.
I understand complaining about me opening doors for the devil (only done because it was not behaving harmfully), but what are you talking about “caused the whole station to get destroyed” and “was just an all around dick”?
By the time the Devil ascended, there was literally nothing I could do to stop it. Because it was still being incredibly chill (even the imps, for a little bit, didn’t attack anyone) I asked the devil for help releasing the assistant. It did, and to its credit, DID NOT HARM ANYONE while doing so. As far as I can tell, the Devil did not harm anyone in the brig, the imps did.
The devil is not crew, you do not take orders from the devil, especially in his ascended form. You pretty much just admitted to leading the devil to slaughter the people in the brig. Pretty much any interaction you had with the devil, where you acquiesced and complied, is grossly out of character for A.I. which is supposed to only obey HUMAN and CREW. You were pretty much trying to play the Captain as AI, and dictate how the brig should be ran (once again, grossly out of character for AI).
Additionally, you imply that I actively followed the devil around opening doors for it and letting it kill people. The only doors I opened for the devil was to make a path to permabrig, during which he and the imps did no harm.
You not only took it upon yourself to free a permad prisoner, who was in perma for multiple attempts of murder, but then you decided that you didn’t like being overruled on your decision to release the prisoner, and saw it fit to escort an entire mob of hellspawn to the brig.
I understand complaining about me opening doors for the devil (only done because it was not behaving harmfully), but what are you talking about “caused the whole station to get destroyed” and “was just an all around dick”?
You are not the captain of the station, you are supposed to be an obedient AI, which you were anything but. Freeing prisoners, getting in the way of sec, and ultimately getting all of sec killed led to the stations chaos at the end of the round.
For these reasons as I stated above, I believe this player at the very least deserves a job ban from AI and command roles.
The devil is not crew, you do not take orders from the devil, especially in his ascended form. You pretty much just admitted to leading the devil to slaughter the people in the brig. Pretty much any interaction you had with the devil, where you acquiesced and complied, is grossly out of character for A.I. which is supposed to only obey HUMAN and CREW. You were pretty much trying to play the Captain as AI, and dictate how the brig should be ran (once again, grossly out of character for AI).
I wasn’t taking the orders from the devil, actually, the devil was taking orders from me (go help the perma prisoner). AI’s are not validhunters. They do not see an antag and automatically go “shut it down”. They only care about crew harm, and that entire shift, the devil very intentionally got on the good side of the silicons by not causing any harm. I was not ‘dictating how the brig should be ran’, I was following law 2 orders from the brig physician to get Hydrogen III out.
You not only took it upon yourself to free a permad prisoner, who was in perma for multiple attempts of murder, but then you decided that you didn’t like being overruled on your decision to release the prisoner, and saw it fit to escort an entire mob of hellspawn to the brig.
Multiple accounts of murder seems to be completely faked. I heard nothing about that from the people handling the arrest and the brigphys mentioned that he should not have been in perma at all. If you can name the people he killed/the jobs of the people he killed/anything whatsoever about the people he killed, I’d be more inclined to believe you. I was following a law 2 order to release him. No officer at any point ordered me not to release him. If it was done, it was only done to my cyborg and not myself.
I don’t think there’s anything else I can say except that I don’t think you know what you’re talking about, as the entire notion that I was “playing captain” and “following devil’s orders” are based on, well, fantasy.
I wasn’t taking the orders from the devil, actually, the devil was taking orders from me (go help the perma prisoner). AI’s are not validhunters. They do not see an antag and automatically go “shut it down”. They only care about crew harm, and that entire shift , the devil very intentionally got on the good side of the silicons by not causing any harm. I was not ‘dictating how the brig should be ran’, I was following law 2 orders from the brig physician to get Hydrogen III out.
That’s even worse, your orders directly lead to human harm, you pretty much executed the security team.
Multiple accounts of murder seems to be completely faked. I heard nothing about that from the people handling the arrest and the brigphys mentioned that he should not have been in perma at all. If you can name the people he killed/the jobs of the people he killed/anything whatsoever about the people he killed, I’d be more inclined to believe you. I was following a law 2 order to release him. No officer at any point ordered me not to release him. If it was done, it was only done to my cyborg and not myself.
Completely faked? Where are you getting that from? I witnessed myself the person in question not only serve a sentence, and then immediately try to kill a sec officer afterwards cause he was mad that his contraband got taken away.
You walked a group of literal demons into the brig, opened the door for them and then watched as they killed sec and did absolutely nothing to contain them. You were extremely complicit in the act, and according to you even masterminded it.
I think this is pretty open and shut, no matter what your law 2 order was, it certainly wasn’t “march a bunch of demons to sec and have them all killed”
You were not on the side of the crew, and the events were according to you, on purpose, and even coordinated by you.
You’re working really hard to include all the right connotations, but a showman attitude doesn’t change the truth. The devil was not harmful at the time of using them to complete a law 2 order. Neither were the imps. And there are actual logs to show the imps having to bash down firelocks AND me telling people to get out of the way of firelocks so I could close them to stop them from coming in. Them getting in and killing you is a product of A. the imps having massive numbers and B. Hydrogen III ran to you instead of escaping, so I had to open the doors to let him get away from the imps (at which point they got into the room with you).
None of Hydrogen III’s supposed crimes were passed onto me. It sounds like he didn’t actually try to murder three people and was simply “sentenced” and attacked an officer. If I knew the part about him attacking an officer, I wouldn’t have bothered, but again no one passed that info to me.
Are you hoping the admins don’t do any investigation, or…? I’m going to stop replying until logs are posted since you’re being patently dishonest.
Unable to do proper investigation at this time, within a few hours I should be able to.
By all means continue the conversation while it stays civil
I will say the I agree with the statement that the AI is not a validhunter by nature. It is in fact against the rules to act against someone your laws don’t protect without reason on MRP.
Known Devil/Changelings can be killed by the AI, but that’s not a requirement for the AI to do so. If they have been cooperative and even openly helpful, there is reason to trust them and you’re not obligated to act against them until ordered to or you suspect they will cause harm.
Are you hoping the admins don’t do any investigation, or…? I’m going to stop replying until logs are posted since you’re being patently dishonest.
I believe your intentions were malicious and that you acted outside of the bounds of your role, you might slide on a technicality, and that’s okay because that’s what AI’s are all about, technicalities. But I think your intentions were pretty clear. You didn’t like sec, you felt they had done something unjust, and you acted out. Any reasonable person can come to the logical conclusion of what’s going to happen if you let a bunch of imps and a demon into a small confined space in a chaotic situation. The outcome would be the same almost no matter how many times you ran the permutation.
You did not like sec, your intention was to kill sec. You could have used literally any single other crew member to perform the duty of physically escorting the prisoner, if that’s what you were thinking of doing, but you specifically picked the most chaotic possible solution, one that would almost certainly result in death, and you cleared a path for it.
Well, Ruko wants the discussion to keep going, let’s continue.
I don’t think this route of trying to psychoanalyze me is going to get you anywhere, especially considering that if everything you say is true, I would have been knowingly directing the murder of the person I was trying to get out of permabrig and the person who ordered me to do it. Pretty crappy way to comply with an order. You might then speculate that I only cared about killing security, but then the whole “you felt they had done something unjust” thing kind of falls moot. This isn’t sound logic.
Anyway, I told the crew what was going on and no one really cared besides my borg and the brigphys. My one concern was that the imps would harm people, but the four that initially followed the devil (more spawned on him later) passed by several crewmembers from botany to security without attacking them, so I was positively impressed and figured things would go swimmingly. It all went downhill when Hydrogen III punched an imp, not before. Also, I didn’t want anyone to escort Hydrogen III, I wanted him to be released. Remember that the info I was working with is that he’d been unjustly arrested, and that came from a brig physician, which is a pretty reputable source.
Another thing to remember is that the path I opened that let them reach you was for Hydrogen III to escape since he decided to take the single most inconvenient route possible to get out.
Anything I say at this point would pretty much be circular logic. I had no way of seeing your perspective on this, and therefore from my perspective, your actions seemed malicious to me. Everyone judges other people by the result of their actions and themselves by the intentions of their actions.
Just need proper arbitration at this point, and whatever the admins decide is probably fine because they can look at both sides somewhat objectively.
Aye, but lying is an entirely different ballgame from a lack of perspective. This report started out with you saying that the Devil was the one doing the killing and that I was helping him destroy the station, but neither of those things actually happened (imps were the ones who killed you/the devil wasn’t even in the room when you died and I was actively trying to bolt airlocks and close firelocks to stop them).
Aye, but lying is an entirely different ballgame from a lack of perspective. This report started out with you saying that the Devil was the one doing the killing and that I was helping him destroy the station, but neither of those things actually happened (imps were the ones who killed you/the devil wasn’t even in the room when you died and I was actively trying to bolt airlocks and close firelocks to stop them).
How am I supposed to know the difference between you ordering the devil around or the devil ordering you around? All I saw was the brig doors open wide, the devil come in, and then everyone getting killed. Are you really this terse?
Also devil was MOST CERTAINLY in the room when I died, and it doesn’t matter if it’s Imps or devil that killed me, it was all part of the same entourage.
Honestly you were kinda shitty already, letting people out of perma, and just being a pain in the ass in general, and not really helping the crew, so much as working against it (from my perspective) – also your action of letting the Devil into the brig led to a series of events that created the chaos at the end of the round, and caused a bunch of people to die as a result. You sparked the powder keg with your actions.
How am I supposed to know the difference between you ordering the devil around or the devil ordering you around? All I saw was the brig doors open wide, the devil come in, and then everyone getting killed. Are you really this terse?
Irrelevant, hence why I didn’t mention it. I don’t care if you knew which way the order went, I care that you lied about the objective facts of who was killing you + my actions during the round.
Also devil was MOST CERTAINLY in the room when I died, and it doesn’t matter if it’s Imps or devil that killed me, it was all part of the same entourage.
After you called me an asshole on comms and I tracked you to find out why, imps were leaving the room and the devil was going still in the hall.
Honestly you were kinda shitty already, letting people out of perma, and just being a pain in the ass in general, and not really helping the crew, so much as working against it (from my perspective) – also your action of letting the Devil into the brig led to a series of events that created the chaos at the end of the round, and caused a bunch of people to die as a result. You sparked the powder keg with your actions.
I followed a law 2 order from the brigphys to let a guy out of his perma cell. No one ordered me otherwise. No one told me he had hurt anyone. It would have been wrong for me to not release him. To fulfill a law 2 order I use any tools at my disposal as long as they don’t violate law 1. One of my tools happened to be a devil bouncer with a pacifist streak who the crew vouched for.
I’m still curious what you mean by “being a pain in the ass in general” since I don’t recall interacting with you very much.
Also I can happily state that it was actually Hydrogen III that sparked the powder keg by deciding to punch a demon in the face.
Irrelevant, hence why I didn’t mention it. I don’t care if you knew which way the order went, I care that you lied about the objective facts of who was killing you + my actions during the round.
It’s not lying it’s exactly what I saw and how it looked from my perspective.
After you called me an asshole on comms and I tracked you to find out why, imps were leaving the room and the devil was going still in the hall.
I think you are confusing me with some one else
I followed a law 2 order from the brigphys to let a guy out of his perma cell. No one ordered me otherwise. No one told me he had hurt anyone. It would have been wrong for me to not release him. To fulfill a law 2 order I use any tools at my disposal as long as they don’t violate law 1. One of my tools happened to be a devil bouncer with a pacifist streak who the crew vouched for.
It’s like saying, I torched your house, because a molotov cocktail was the tool I was using. This is not a valid excuse, this is just a cop out.
Also I can happily state that it was actually Hydrogen III that sparked the powder keg by deciding to punch a demon in the face.
A demon which you brought there.
ALSO: RULE #5 of rulings for sec and sillicons
Releasing prisoners, locking down security without any likely indication of future harm, or sabotaging the security team when you are not obliged to do so is against the rules.
So the round ID given is not correct, and I can’t find a devil round near the supplied Round ID either. I’m going to handle this based exclusively on what has been said in the thread so far and you’re free to dispute it with me.
the brig physician kept asking me to help
This enables the AI to act on releasing the prisoner
I talked to the devil several times over the course of that round and found that they didn’t actually hurt anyone and were generally well-received by the crew.
Because it was still being incredibly chill (even the imps, for a little bit, didn’t attack anyone) I asked the devil for help releasing the assistant.
So long as these are true to the best of the AIs knowledge, they can treat the devil as if they aren’t a threat to the crew.
The devil is not crew, you do not take orders from the devil,
A.I. which is supposed to only obey HUMAN and CREW.
The AI can do whatever it wants within the scope of its laws. This means while the AI isn’t obligated to obey the devil, they can still assist them until there’s a law conflict. So long as the Devil was acting in good faith and not as a threat to the crew, there is no violation of law 1. So long as nobody with authority ordered the AI to stop obeying/helping the devil, there is no violation of law 2.
You are not the captain of the station, you are supposed to be an obedient AI, which you were anything but
If anyone took the deal with the Devil that makes them captain, that means they are the only person the AI must listen to due to the law that gets uploaded to the AI.
Everything said after these quotes I mostly skimmed, but there didn’t appear to be any more points necessary to make. I need a correct round ID to have any chance of actually proving/disproving motives.
The prestige contract does not create a law of any weight. It does not one human or one crew the AI, it just tells the AI to consider the signer to be the captain, but does not enable the signer to tell the AI to consider the others non-crew or to order the AI to break any of its other laws.
More to the point, as long as security is non-harmfully restraining and putting somebody in the brig/perma/whatever, AI should not have any justification to taking any action at all (because this leads to the guy saying law 2, then sec says law 2, then the guy says …).
Edit: There’s also some massive variance in AI player interpretation of the laws, some are like: “Hurr durr, any law change is harm”, others seem to allow incredibly powerful and dangerous beings roam free because no law has been broken YET, don’t know if that should mean anything, just an observation.
Theres no real way for an AI to lock down a dangerous being, especially if they’re human. Simplemobs will just break shit and antags will generally be equipped to escape and probably kill you.
Problem is I was law 2’d to take action and security never law 2’d me otherwise/asked me to stop. Maybe they asked my borg to do so, but my borg never relayed anything like that to me, so who knows.