Halinder banned by WinterDarkraven

Ban Appeals Game Ban Appeals
1

CKEY:
Halinder
Admin’s CKEY:
WinterDarkraven
Is this for both servers or just one? If so, which one:
Sage
Which server did the ban happen on?
Sage/MRP
Ban Type:
Server
Ban Length:
3 days
Ban Date (MM/DD/YYYY):
5/3/2021
Round ID:
29344
Ban Reason:
LRP behaviour on MRP. Going out of their way as an assistant drafted miner to kill and cremate cyborgs because of an ion law. Did not understand why removing players from the round over easily fixed laws was bad. Doesn’t understand that silicons cannot hurt them when disabled. Don’t hunt players to slaughter.
Appeal Reason:
This ban occurred because I chose to kill an engineering cyborg that used its RCD to vent the room I was in (SE central primary hallway). Because it then ran to robotics for repairs and the roboticist seemed to still be tending to cyborgs, I cremated it to prevent it from coming back and venting more of the station. Winter seemed more concerned of the fact that I’d round-removed them than any sort of justification I had to offer; appeared to only be contacting me as a formality and had already decided that, regardless of any reasoning I had, that anything I did had amounted to LRP behavior. Some things to note:

  • I only killed and cremated the engineering cyborg, the one that tried to suffocate and pressure-kill me in an area without power. The ban reason implying that I cremated several cyborgs is sensational nonsense trying to make the ban seem more necessary than it really is.
  • The only other “cyborg” I killed was an empty AI shell, which I crowbarred and removed the battery for. I did not cremate this one because the roboticist had not shown any intention of repairing this one.
  • I shot the peacekeeper cyborg and tried to finish it off because it kept siphoning rooms. It led me to robotics where it was trying to get repairs from the roboticist. I hit a fuel tank on accident while it was evading shots and it got away.
  • I was not a “drafted miner”. I got a job change round start to become a miner. I had returned to the station to experiment with a mod disk I’d found (which needed to be turned in to science) and then went to the kitchen to get food. During that trip, the engiborg vented with an RCD.
  • With the exception of cargo and one or two other areas, every single part of the station I crossed into was being siphoned by these cyborgs. The damage they were doing was VERY real and affecting a lot of people, myself included, hence why once I started shooting at them I wanted to make sure I got the kill. I also made sure to go back and repair the gaps they’d made and tried to weld scrubbers to stop the siphoning.
  • Security had its hands full and wasn’t available. The Captain was busy getting meteor shield crates because an admin had spawned 3 different meteor strikes, disabled most APC’s using the power outage event taken to the extreme (10+ minutes of outage) and given the AI an ion law (or perhaps that one was random, I don’t know). The HoP seemed out of the loop and didn’t really do anything. I had no reason to assume that the ion laws were going away any time soon. After I killed the engiborg and the AI shell, WIRE eventually mentioned that they tried to default/reset the AI and it still wasn’t working.
  • I didn’t ‘validhunt’. The cyborgs I saw were actively damaging the station. Once the peacekeeper cyborg was out of my reach, I made sure people knew where it was and then got back to business. I didn’t gear up in EVA gear and go off to murder the AI or chase the borg into space.

The station was getting siphoned, admin events were being spawned out the ass, and that engiborg specifically chose to vent the place that I was in. I’m going to murder it, and as long as nobody is doing anything to fix the core problem AND the roboticist is still offering them aid, I’m gonna cremate them.

So: what is the reason for this ban? Escalation was proper. I didn’t go out of my way to find more borgs to kill, I attacked the ones I saw that I could reach. There was no security or command available or willing to help. I tried to focus on intervening indirectly by welding scrubbers and handling power outages before the engiborg tried to go for me directly. This feels more like a R0 ruling (that is, Winter just didn’t like how it felt) than anything that was directly against the rules.

Additional Information:
Convo went as follows (voiding out unnecessary greeting and goodbye’ing)

Admin PM: This is about your behaviour—seeking out players to kill (silicons) then round removing them with cremtion. We don’t want this. Anything you would like to add?

PM to- Admins: if an engineering cyborg uses an RCD to vent the area i’m in, that engineering cyborg is going to super-die. if robotics is going to then repair those cyborgs, i’m going to super-cremate them so they can’t keep coming back and venting the station.

Admin PM: Glad we’ve came to an understanding, removing players from the round is awful. Since I can’t trust you won’t repeat this, I’m taking the liberty of making sure you don’t.

2 Likes
2

Round on-going.
Delisted until round concludes.

5 
[2021-05-03 05:27:51.173] ATTACK: Halinder/(Gamboge Jenson) has shot *no key*/(Default AI Shell 722) with the weakened kinetic force (NEWHP: 90)  (Aft Primary Hallway (106, 89, 2))
[2021-05-03 05:27:52.365] ATTACK: Halinder/(Gamboge Jenson) has shot *no key*/(Default AI Shell 722) with the weakened kinetic force (NEWHP: 80)  (Aft Primary Hallway (106, 93, 2))
[2021-05-03 05:27:53.739] ATTACK: Halinder/(Gamboge Jenson) has shot *no key*/(Default AI Shell 722) with the weakened kinetic force (NEWHP: 70)  (Aft Primary Hallway (106, 97, 2))
[2021-05-03 05:27:55.176] ATTACK: Halinder/(Gamboge Jenson) has shot *no key*/(Default AI Shell 722) with the weakened kinetic force (NEWHP: 60)  (Aft Primary Hallway (106, 102, 2))
[2021-05-03 05:27:56.450] ATTACK: Halinder/(Gamboge Jenson) has shot *no key*/(Default AI Shell 722) with the weakened kinetic force (NEWHP: 50)  (Aft Primary Hallway (106, 106, 2))
[2021-05-03 05:27:57.709] ATTACK: Halinder/(Gamboge Jenson) has shot *no key*/(Default AI Shell 722) with the weakened kinetic force (NEWHP: 40)  (Aft Primary Hallway (106, 111, 2))
[2021-05-03 05:27:58.756] ATTACK: Halinder/(Gamboge Jenson) has shot *no key*/(Default AI Shell 722) with the weakened kinetic force (NEWHP: 30)  (Central Primary Hallway (106, 114, 2))
[2021-05-03 05:27:59.975] ATTACK: Halinder/(Gamboge Jenson) has shot *no key*/(Default AI Shell 722) with the weakened kinetic force (NEWHP: 20)  (Central Primary Hallway (109, 115, 2))
[2021-05-03 05:28:01.033] ATTACK: Halinder/(Gamboge Jenson) has shot *no key*/(Default AI Shell 722) with the kinetic force (NEWHP: -20)  (Central Primary Hallway (113, 115, 2))
[2021-05-03 05:28:02.153] ATTACK: Halinder/(Gamboge Jenson) has shot *no key*/(Default AI Shell 722) with the kinetic force (NEWHP: -60)  (Central Primary Hallway (117, 115, 2))
[2021-05-03 05:28:03.252] ATTACK: Halinder/(Gamboge Jenson) has shot *no key*/(Default AI Shell 722) with the kinetic force (NEWHP: -100)  (Central Primary Hallway (117, 115, 2))

[2021-05-03 05:29:01.425] ATTACK: Halinder/(Gamboge Jenson) has shot theman1178/(L.O-C.O.) with the kinetic force (NEWHP: 60)  (Command Hallway (97, 126, 2))
[2021-05-03 05:29:02.553] ATTACK: Halinder/(Gamboge Jenson) has fired at [floor] with the plasma blast from Command Hallway (Command Hallway (95, 126, 2))
[2021-05-03 05:29:54.728] ATTACK: Halinder/(Gamboge Jenson) has shot theman1178/(L.O-C.O.) with the weakened kinetic force (NEWHP: 20)  (Departure Lounge (107, 77, 2))

The cremation.

[2021-05-03 05:27:19.857] ATTACK: Halinder/(Gamboge Jenson) has cremated Daridine/(TONKAc Drone) (NEWHP: -100)  (Chapel Office (80, 73, 2))

Killing silicons in a conflict is allowed—hunting them is not.

The suspension is for hunting silicons for the express reason to remove them from the round.

Ion laws were later reverted.

Waiting on second opinions.

6

  1. Killing borgs is fine because they were malf

  2. Not only were they malf, they were obviously malf (siphoning rooms)

  3. Escalation is relaxed against borgs (since they’re easy to fix)

  4. An idiot robo rebuilt the malf borgs, and they came back to siphon more rooms (I assume this is when the crusade started)

  5. Halinder not only killed borgs that he saw, but he cremated them (main issue)

  6. It is fine to kill a borg, it is less fine to permanently remove that borg player from the round.

  7. Questionable if Halinder was looking for borgs to kill, or if they just stumbled across borgs that approached them while they were doing normal things

7

You round removed this guy simply because of an Ion law? Flashing him and cutting his wires would make him a non problem.
It obviously wasn’t hard for you to stun him considering you got him to crematorium, so why didn’t you choose the less than lethal choice when he wasn’t going to directly harm you?

8

First log block: Me shooting an empty AI shell and bringing it away from robotics. Again, an empty AI shell belonging to the AI going around siphoning the station.

Second log block: Me shooting a peacekeeper cyborg on my way back to cargo, it fleeing, me chasing it into space.

Notably, both of these occurred after the first engagement with the engiborg, who I cremated (the logs are out of order).

  • I cremated the engiborg. I very clearly wasn’t intending to remove every single silicon from the round or else I’d have also cremated the AI shell.

  • I dislike that the ban reason is dishonest.

  • Also want to restate that there were three independent adminbus crises going on (super long power outages, meteors, and rogue silicons) and there wasn’t anyone else handling the cyborg problem. Ion laws were reverted much later; when I was still on, WIRE tried to change the laws but the AI continued to siphon, so I assume it didn’t return to normal until after I was banned.

  • At no point did I attack a cyborg that wasn’t within vision of me while I was on my set path (cargo->science->engiborg midway through kitchen, AI shell charging in robo where engiborg fled to w/ open airlock as I was going back to cargo, peacekeeper borg visible in command hallway left side while I was going to cargo).

  • I didn’t stun him, @RKz , I killed him outright and the robos were repairing malfs so I removed them. Also, don’t cyborgs that lose their connection to the AI maintain their laws unless they’re completely rebuilt?

  • He RCD’d a floor to space. He was most certainly intending to harm me.

9

I know they are just semantics, but they were Rogue, right? Meaning the harm came from a set law and not the Ai being tator.

Can someone post the Ion law that the Silicons had that made this mess?

That is not a direct intent. It was due to the single law. Ion laws pretty much never force silicons into direct harm confrontation with crew. Usually it’s some crap like “only crew holding toolboxes are human” or “x is harmful to humans”.
As the law probably stated.(I don’t know the damn law used so I am only guessing)

I don’t understand, if they were repairing them, it’s quite simple. don’t give the dead borgs to robotics.

Better yet, deconstruct the borgs into just their Posibrains with Cap or RDs permission. Borg is no longer constrained by laws and you can safely desync a shell from lawset to bring borg back to the shift.

1 Like
10

I don’t know either. I never got to know the ion law. I only got to know that borgs and AI were siphoning the station in a lot of places. But yeah, I consider exposing me to 0 pressure and no air to be direct intent to harm me, as it so happens.

Neither cap or RD available due to multitude of crises. The next time I saw cap, he was ordering an armory in the cargo bay. There was a lot of shit going on.

My main gripes with this ban is the fact that they took something not outright stated but controversial (the cremation) and embellished it (“LRP behavior on MRP”, implying multiple kill-cremations, implying intentionally attempting to find cyborgs to slaughter them).

11

It’s that you removed a player entirely from the round for basically no reason. You completely incapacitated the borg, it couldn’t attack you or deal any harm. It would have been trivial to get it reset at that point. Going on to ensure that they had no way to be restored is just too far. Plain and simple.

12

Highly suggest noting this in the rules somewhere, though will again restate that roboticists were helping cyborgs so “trivial to get it reset” isn’t exactly fair/correct.

13

Doesn’t it sound like… Hunting?

What

I am unsure but roboticist fixing cyborgs doesn’t mean you can outright cremate cyborgs. How about you hid his body in maints and came back for him after things cooled down?

14

chasing a borg so that it goes to space, and then staying in the station now that it’s off the station, sounds more like telling a borg to fuck off.

dunno what the “what” is about seems pretty self-explanatory.

noted for future

15

Second opinions given. Hunting players to remove them from the round entirely for a temporary issue isn’t acceptable.

Don’t repeat this.