Unless the nercopolis was in danger during the round as they attacked the station I don’t think that’s a great counter. I’d also like to point out that this “at all costs” means anything is justified no action is too extreme for that goal.
Now, imagine if Earth was invaded by aliens. These aliens pose a great threat to us I think you would agree the goal for us would be to defend Earth at all costs right? Well, if you were given the opportunity to board the invaders craft and bring the fight to them which could potentially end the conflict would you? I know I would go that route because a good offense is the best defense.
So let’s assume you too take that path and you come out victorious defeating the aliens but some are attempting to escape. Do you really just let them go? Putting Earth at greater risk by letting this formidable foe flee and possibly come back with reinforcements? Even if you think their return is eventually going to occur again anyways we could be more prepared next time and them not returning with knowledge of the specifics of how we defeated the first invasion could be vital to our survival next time.
Likewise is Ashwalkers make this mistake they are effectively failing objective #1
You make valid points, but with the photos confirming the goals of ashwalkers there brings the need for a reason within those goals/objectives for an ashwalker to BoH bomb the evac shuttle. The goals are pretty much, kill the outsiders to increase your numbers and protect the tendril. With the crew leaving the station at that moment their is no longer an active threat (unless some dumbass is down at lava land at the time when the shuttle arrives) at that moment in time. So their isn’t any excuse personally that they should be allowed to damage the evac shuttle. Attack people on the shuttle yes (even though with that many people in one place it would be stupid to do so), but not actively destroy it. At the end of the day, centcom could send a team to destroy the ash walkers but unless that actually happens within a round I don’t think it’s a strong roleplay argument.
Question: What is the difference between attacking large amounts of people people on the shuttle and bombing one room of the shuttle? Structural damage, right? Why would an ashwalker care about that kind of collateral damage?
This is another good point. Unlike other antags the Ashwalkers don’t have a investment into having a escape pods and shuttles functional for their own eventual escape. It doesn’t make sense for a traitor to do so because it’s obviously irrational and griefing. But a Ashwalker is a very different role and it wouldn’t make sense for them to take care in not damaging something they don’t see as vital to themselves.
Doesn’t give you license to engage in one-way offensive missions by yourself. “Protect the tendril at all costs”, “defend it with your life”: that means dying alongside your brethren as the megafauna/miners/security army/cargo militia storm the nest. There must have been plenty of corpses and monkeys left on the station for you to truck down to the tendril. If you beat the outsiders on their home turf, what difference does it make if a couple get away?
Actually, I didn’t see a single dead body when I was going back down through the 'porter to gather supplies after my first scout run.
To that oddity of a first point: the tendril was fully secure and there were no megafauna/miners/security army/cargo militia storming the nest. Again, I’m not seeing the relevance, though thanks for dragging up that bit of code.
Exactly, they don’t have any investment in the escape pods and such, so why should they be allowed to bomb the evac shuttle? Also I did read your reply to ruko, I still stand on my point that it isn’t that strong of a argument because I haven’t seen any teams being sent to lava land to destroy ash walkers after the escape shuttle leave or eve. Only time I’ve seen a team set up to destroy the tendril was during the meteor mode where the whole station had to live on lava land. I agree with it roleplay wise some, but flat out I don’t 100% agree with it until it becomes a common event within rounds. @Halinder if the ashwalkers don’t care about that kind of damage, wouldn’t it be easier to protect the tendril if you destroyed the mining shuttle console and destroy the mining shuttle?
Also the reason for the lack of bodies was that I was a magicarp with the resurrection spell so anytime that people or animals died I’d bring them back and I was constantly healing people
What do you mean by “exactly”? I’d never have bombed the shuttle if there weren’t people there; it wasn’t because I had investment in the shuttle, it was because I had investment in the people.
It certainly would have been “easier” if I hadn’t been shown teleporter technology. Thanks to the golems, we knew that they had a permanent way onto Lavaland through their teleporter system (and the golems actively took an interest in helping me after a tiny hiccup where they walled off the tendril, so it would have been a crappy move to solve matters by blowing them up).
Yeah I tried going somewhere with “if ashwalkers don’t care about shuttle/station then why should they want to destroy it”. And if the golems had teleporter technology, wouldn’t you have to follow the protect the tendril at all costs objective and blow them up even if the golems helped you protect the tendril?
No. Why would I? They were constantly giving us things to help us. Doesn’t make sense to murder an ally when you can murder your enemies with that ally’s gear.
Do you believe that the “at any costs” part of protecting the tendril allows you to do what ever you want? Just wanna ask that before I comment any further
No, not at all, else I’d have murdered all the golems despite the fact they were being consistently good to us (their machines are just as useful with them dead and egg’d than with them alive).
Yeah I don’t know what else to say. I personally think you went too far with BoH bombing the evac shuttle. I didn’t have a radio at all during that round so I don’t know how long ash walkers were on the station and I don’t know if there was any ic build up to you attacking the shuttle. I think it would’ve been better if you BoH bombed cargo or almost anywhere else other than the evac shuttle. Doing the evac shuttle to me is unnecessary carnage (that I think killed about half of the remaining crew). Like doing that much damage is like a non ghost-traitor blowing up the evac shuttle because they needed to steal a single item, it’s excessive for a small goal. And with the crew already leaving and the entrance to the tendril walled off, it wasn’t needed to BoH the evac shuttle because the tendril is safe.
My problem with using this as RP explaination falls again to whether RP took place at all on that level. The necropolis was never in danger, but the reason for that is because as far as I know the ashwalkers never interacted with crew at all (or even left Lavaland for that matter) before he silently infiltrated one of their vessels to suicide bomb as many as possible.
This is a hard thing in particular to check in the logs - but I could find no record at all of ashwalker interaction with anything but lavaland mobs + golems (which they were friendly with) until the BoH suicide bombing. The only messages I can find in reference to ash walkers in the logs are ghosts going ‘Huh, Ashwalkers exist’ and golems.
Edit: Also worth noting - The Ashwalkers were friendly with the golems, which actually invaded their space and tried to wall off the Tendril earlier in the round.
[2020-02-18 23:00:50.379] PRAY: halinder/(Shei-Beela): Those Necropolis tendrils do seem like they have some pretty strong roots. Would be a shame if they broke these walls, or if some poor outsider's supply pod crashed.
I really do understand your justifications, I just don’t buy that this was RP motivated in any way. There would have been attacks on the Golems actually inhabiting and invading their own home first.
As I understand it (from when I was ghosted), the first ever Ashwalker spawn immediately went hostile on the golems and got his ass beat. I, once I spawned as an Ashwalker, had no way to know about the golems murdering one of my own. All I knew was that they’d walled the tendril off, which:
A. takes a lot more effort than just smashing the thing, so obviously they weren’t trying to kill us all
B. blocks the tendril off to invaders
So that plus them being really nice to me was a pretty solid indicator that they weren’t enemies, and I’d have to be using meta info to be able to know they had attacked us before.
