My guy the mime wasn’t self antagging, he was a heretic.
The only time you called for sec was after the fight with the mime, in which you yelled “MIME TRIED TO KILL ME” after you initiated the fight. Ive had to bring you here before to discuss validhunting a wizard as a detective, youve found yourself under another ban later for validhunting as a chaplain, and now here we are once again. I’ll post the relevant logs later today when I’m at my computer but validhunting rules on our server are rules, not suggestions. This isn’t the first time you’ve been spoken to about it and you don’t seem to have any interest in following our rules so ill ask this.
We are a roleplay server and require our players to play a character. You’re here to roleplay a normal worker, not to win a game. What kind of character do you play? And what guarentee do we have that you’re not going to simply refuse to follow our rules again?
Did you not see “Also applies to regular antagonists”
Only play Security jobs and work on the forums to present my case and arguments against this harmful and grief encouraging rule. It devastates gameplay in ways that should be presented in a proffesional and clinical fashion and not on an emotionally charged post. I want to study the effects of this rule and prove that it is indeed harmful.
I’ll follow it. I’ll obey it. But I’m going to work on getting it removed.
This is not a description of the kind of character you play, that’s just a job.
What does your character like/dislike?
What are your character’s flaws? What are their strengths?
That is what describes the character you’re playing and immersing yourself as.
Are you an admin? If not, then I do not have to answer you.
He is ex-staff and is basically responsible for the current edition of Space Law.
You, however, still don’t see why this rule is in place.
It is so that regular crew, like you, cannot just drop everything and chase the antag through the whole station.
Alright I don’t like being this guy but: please leave the handling of the appeal to me the other admins on the team, the last thing I want is for thia to derail into a big argument.
I have a few things here, as Ruko did say, this isnt a character, this is the type of player you want to be. Tell me what kind of character you intend to play. Who are they? What kind of person are they, how do they react to stresses etc.
You’ve said this before, in a bwoink with another admin for validhunting you had this exact conversation. “Rule is dumb” “fine I’ll follow it but I don’t like it” and yet here we are, you didn’t follow the rule like you told the last admin and you clearly don’t want to follow it. So I ask again, what reason do I have to believe it will be different?
I will ask the other admin to post the last conversation for reference since I cannot currently.
Yeah, here it is, happened last week
WilsonPH->GrimlockCyber: Validhunting ain't cool, man WilsonPH->GrimlockCyber: Well, got something to say? GrimlockCyber->WilsonPH: Sorry? WilsonPH->GrimlockCyber: Why did you validhunt Camryn Laurenzi GrimlockCyber->WilsonPH: They were hurting and actively kidnappoing an officer right and front of me. WilsonPH->GrimlockCyber: And you're not a security role ADMIN: WilsonPH checked the individual player panel for GrimlockCyber. GrimlockCyber->WilsonPH: But they were attacking an officer right infront of me. Is that not even allowed? GrimlockCyber->WilsonPH: Should I just let them hurt people around me? WilsonPH->GrimlockCyber: You started immediately slashing at them with your chainsaw sword. Not asking what's up, not calling for security back up, not showing them, no, you went straight to attacking them GrimlockCyber->WilsonPH: Because I saw them attacking an officer. GrimlockCyber->WilsonPH: Even if I did call for help, there would be no time for officers to show up. Its a net loss for everyone. WilsonPH->GrimlockCyber: Why don't you go and read this : https://wiki.beestation13.com/view/Rules#2_No_Powergaming GrimlockCyber->WilsonPH): Fine, then I won't do it anymore. But know I think the rule, at least how it is handled is very harmful. WilsonPH ->GrimlockCyber : Nope. The rules are this way so antags get breathing room to do gimmicks without the crew, like you, hunting them down. GrimlockCyber->WilsonPH There was no gimmick, they were hurting another crewmember and I was right there. i won't do it again, but I will disagree with it heavily. WilsonPH->GrimlockCyber: How do you know they weren't trying to kidnap that officer for a hostage situation? GrimlockCyber->WilsonPH: Because they were actively beating the officer. WilsonPH checked the individual player panel for GrimlockCyber. WilsonPH->GrimlockCyber: ... you've learned nothing from that indicent with you as the detective and a wizard, I see. Well, have this time off, re-think on why you're here. WilsonPH has created a global temporary 3 days server ban for GrimlockCyber. Reason: Rule 2 No Powergaming. As a Chaplain, stepped off the Arrivals shuttle, saw a security officer being assaulted in maintenance and decided that the best course of action would be wordlessly charging at the attacker and slashing at them with their chainsaw sword.
There is no other way I can convince you, other than fighting for this rule to be changed or a good argument in support of this rule. Not once has someone given me concrete reasoning on the benefits of this rule, or why my reasoning is incorrect.
All I have heard is “The rule is in place because it is a rule” rather than someone explaining why my belief that the rule, which is encouraging antagonists and selfantagers to get away with griefing. Should remain in place on a server, which claims to hold RP in high regard.
If I were convinced the rule was just, that it actually encourages RP instead of stifiling it. Then I would support the rule and obey it.
The mime wasn’t a crewmember, he was a heretic.
Self-antag like griefing are not allowed.
Self-antag and/or griefing didn’t occur here.
Had self-antag or griefing occured, the culprit would have faced admin actions.
Your reasoning is incorrect because it is built on fantasy, fiction, you are imagining a round that never happened, a round that will never happen given the rules in place.
“Your reasoning is incorrect because it is built on fantasy, fiction, you are imagining a round that never happened, a round that will never happen given the rules in place.”
I never stated that the rule was exclusive to self antaggers. It also applies to antagonists who wish to not facilitate RP but to murderbone and break into departments without any reasoning. Such as the mime, who I have had no idea was even an antagonists until later postings revealed it to me.
On that topic, how would I know he was an antagonist without some sort of metagaming? I left the round halfway through?
As it has been explained to me, the validhunting rule is to faciltate RP. But how can lets say, a traitor point a gun at some assistant to rob them be possible if there is no rule in which someone must value their life or in some way or another not run away, ruining the traitors RP of being a robber?
Let me use your own example and break this down for you. Traitor John Syndicate stops Bob NanoTrasen in the halls. John pulls out a gun and points it at Bob, telling them to put their hands up. It turns out Bob has a toolbox handy and decides to rush 3 tiles towards the man with a gun and toolboxes them to death.
In this scenario Bob has validhunted John, removing any possibility for RP at all and instead valuing winning and defeated the bad guy while John was attempting to create a fun situation instead of just killing a target.
Let’s change things up a little bit. John stops Bob in the hallways and says put your hands up, holding them at gunpoint. Bob runs away screaming for sec to their position. This is still a bit questionable but is allowable as the person was trying to escape with their life. The trade off being that well they are probably going to get shot dead by John and now John is going to go into hiding or go full loud, making RP hard.
Now let’s look at the third and ideal situation. John holds Bob at gunpoint and Bob stops and emotes putting his hands up. John and Bob get to have a fun hostage situation. A passerby can call sec and sec can come get involved, because everyone is playing along noone feels like they have to kill the other in order to have their fun.
Now all three of these scenarios are obviously assuming how people are going to act but they give the right idea, let’s think about it in real life now. John holds a gun at Bob, Bob decides to rush John with a toolbox, and in real life, Bob gets shot and dies. That doesn’t make much sense for someone who wants to keep their life right? It’s different for each person sure but you aren’t going to run 15 feet at someone holding a gun at you, that’s just a bad idea.
Your entire idea here seems to be built around the idea that people should be allowed to defend themselves, which is actually allowed. What we don’t allow is chasing the bad guy down. That is security’s job, you know the people who are trained to deal with dangerous situations and aren’t a Normal average Joe employee working at a research station.
What you did, both this time and in the past, is see a bad guy doing something dangerous and decide that you would take it upon yourself to kill another human being. You tried to defend yourself saying things like
Showing me that you let OOC motivations influence your IC actions
And my final piece to add onto this reply for now is this: You still have not told what kind of character you want to play in game. You seem to be avoiding this question entirely, almost as if you don’t want to roleplay a character and instead are hoping to just play a game and win. You know, shouting things like “DUKE MAJOR” “DUKE SWEEP” In OOC after a round
Here are a few example of why I am concerned about your intentions here and why I don’t believe you are truly here to RP.
OOC: GrimlockCyber/(GrimlockCyber) "Antags got stomped lol" (start area (8, 174, 1))
OOC: GrimlockCyber/(GrimlockCyber) "Duke sweep." (start area (8, 174, 1))
OOC: GrimlockCyber/(GrimlockCyber) "Duke sweep." (start area (8, 174, 1))
Yes those are two different time you said it in the same OOC.
OOC: GrimlockCyber/(Duke Poison) "CE was a whiny bitch." (CentCom Recovery Ship (194, 84, 1))
OOC: GrimlockCyber/(Duke Poison) "Cope and Seethe. Duke Sweep." (CentCom Recovery Ship (194, 80, 1))
OOC: GrimlockCyber/(Harvester (907)) "Bro you're the one crying like a baby" (Space (103, 41, 2))
OOC: GrimlockCyber/(Harvester (907)) ""erm actkually there was one sec so you never rreally one" shut the fucker up loser" (Departure Lounge (110, 72, 2))
OOC: GrimlockCyber/(Klaus Kralle) "CHANGLING SWEEP" (Emergency Shuttle (207, 80, 1))
OOC: GrimlockCyber/(Klaus Kralle) "CHANGLING SWEEP" (Emergency Shuttle (215, 75, 1))
OOC: GrimlockCyber/(Duke Poison) "NUKIE SWEEP! NUKIE SWEEP! NUKIE SWEEEEEP!!!" (Syndicate Control Room (75, 88, 1))
OOC: GrimlockCyber/(GrimlockCyber) "Cry" (start area (8, 174, 1))
Oh boy here’s a good one:
OOC: GrimlockCyber/(GrimlockCyber) "Post-Round cope" (start area (8, 174, 1))
OOC: GrimlockCyber/(GrimlockCyber) "I love to see it" (start area (8, 174, 1))
Do you see our concerns yet?
I see your perspective now. I had always assumed, your point was to let antagonists get away with anything.
In fact your point was to encourage inter-party communication that highlights different departments duties, instead of letting one individual hog all the glory.
Look, I’m going to be 100% honest and transparent with you. First and foremost, this incident will result in a ban, escalated accordingly to your behavior both here and in regards to previous bans. But before that can happen I need you to answer the question you have avoided answering and skirted around in this appeal. What kind of character do you intend to play? I need to ensure that you have a genuine character that you will be roleplaying and not just coming back to game. Second, and this is the blunt honesty part.
I personally do not believe this to be genuine. To be clear, my personal opinion on this will not affect the ban recieved or further action, however to me this sounds like you are simply tired of arguing and feel like your point isn’t being understood, and therefore are saying whatever you need to to get out of trouble.
As has been said several times now, you’ve given us empty promises, told us you won’t do it again, and basically just given us honeyed words to try and get out of trouble. I do not want to see you removed from our server but if you cannot straighten your behavior up then that is where this is going, and fast.
As was said before, if you disagree with the rule, consider making a post in the suggestions category here about changing it. Give us examples of both the pros and cons of your proposed change, how it is different, and how it will affect RP. If you can do things properly then we can consider it. But until it is changed you must follow our server rules to stay here.
With all of that said I will ask one more time: Please tell me, what kind of character is Duke Poison? What is his personality, what are his positive and negative traits, does he hate certain types of people? Does he prefer a certain kind of race? Does he fear having a gun in his face or can he keep a calm mind? Please tell me what kind of character Duke Poison is.
I can’t answer that because I had always assumed this was an MRP server. Where characters were based on vague concepts and were round by round.
Alright here’s the deal, today is a holiday for me where I’m at so I’m not going to do anything today, and ive let you argue this far longer than I should have, much to the chagrin of the other admins I am sure. So heres the deal, im going to resolve this appeal tomorrow, I expect you to have told us what kind of character you will be playing by then. Beestation is a roleplay server. We do not label ourselvs as mrp lrp hrp or anything. If you do manage to share a real character that youre going to play then be warned. This will be your final warning, there will be no more chances after this. You’ve had too many in too short of time.
Well the time has come and gone. After having taken everything I have seen from you and from this appeal into consideration and having thought on it for a bit I am going to deny this appeal. I am thoroughly unconvinced that you are here to roleplay, and despite you insisting that you are, you were incapable of providing me with a real character that you intend to play as. You had several infractions all of the same kind way too close together and even had the exact same talk before with Wilson where you said you wouldn’t do this again and proceeded to do the same thing. All of this considered I will be making this a true permanent ban. You can appeal this in one year with a proper vouch from another server.