For a Better Command --- Suggestions

[Ambiic]

@WilsonPH

Something like Orderly?

Mind elaborating on this?

[Wrill]

doctor+

thing on baystation iirc

yeah no I was totally wrong

[Ambiic]

Quick one. It would be nice as I love working in all of Science with or without full staff but hate doing things in Command unless I am HoS, HoP or Cap.

[WilsonPH]

On /vg/ Orderly is in charge of keeping the medbay floors clean, ensuring dead bodies get delivered to the Morgue, keeping the medical records updated and keeping non-patients out with an old police baton.

[Ambiic]

Also, @DimitriSTK88, I’ve also tried a bit with making extends to the SOP detailing things such as what chemicals I want available and it wasn’t well received. I can send them over Discord if you wish to see them.

[Ambiic]

Gimme that. Dibs. Just a Head without Command duties would be a bless!

[JOYK1LLZ]

@Ambiic

I think for this reason that HoP should get additional radio keys.

Abso-fucking-lutely.
Med and Engie are the groups Hop needs to cooperate with second most to the captain.

[PinkSuzuki]

I think what probably is the biggest challange in making this work is that I see the CMO spot be left open more times than I see it be filled, so a second mini head… Don’t know how often it will be played…

But I love the idea!!! And hey maybe it would bridge between a doctor and playing CMO for the first time!

[Ambiic]

Problem with CMO is that they are part of Command and Command is cancer (but can be fun during high-pop). Every department should have their own QM or Warden to assist in the department itself with Medbay having their own Orderly,

Actually now… thinking about it. As a CMO I’m just gonna appoint a Doctor to be my Orderly. I’ve sort of done it once before, but I forgot to check back with him as I had to help the Captain the entire time.

Perhaps even give them a small lesson on rare CMO only knowledge like on Romerol and its effects, brain washing and so on. So they have an in character reason to know that stuff, which I imagine a real Orderly would have.

Wonder if this could be done as an RD? And to what extent? Honestly, unsure what an Research Director right hand could do that they already couldn’t. Might be the most useless out of all of 'em.

[Tamus]

Honestly, unsure what an Research Director right hand could do that they already couldn’t.

I would imagine it would be the guy you would appoint to oversee experiments and work on semi-complex stuff in your stead.

Think of them as your sidekick you send to sec to get guns for your totally legal mech (give him a paper and warn the HOS in avance).

[DimitriSTK88]

@Ambiic

@DimitriSTK88

A good old plasmaflood is always the most efficient way to destroy the entire station.

I dislike how easy people are to leave the station. I find it enjoyable to build up the station and fix it. So what if the main hallway has a massive gaping hole? Patch it up! Rebuild it.

I’ve had one Captain call the shuttle because the SM blew up. Did it make a tesla? Nope. A massive hole? Nope. What then? It destroyed the inner shielding walls and roughly ten hull tiles… I had an RCD mech which fixed it in ten seconds. Our Engineer and AI were there and were up to fixing it the SM.

See?

I’m sure each one of us has not one, but multiple head of staff horror stories!

The next time you see something like that happen, communicate on command offering feedback on why that line of reasoning is bollocks!

Quite recently the opposite thing happened to me. Our heroic @zimon9 was our lone engineer that shift, the SM blew up and he needed to go sdd before even finishing to wire solars. I staunchily opposed any attempt to call the shuttle with all my might, but after the third denial the rest of command mobbed the shuttle call.

Needless to say that once our valiant Liebherri came back from being ssd, an antimatter was built within minutes and the power crisis was sorted but alas, it was too late to recall.

Nor I would have dared to, considering that the strained relationship at that moment with the rest of comand made me fear the probable mutiny I would have faced afterwards.

@Ambiic

@DimitriSTK88

And then people would end up very bitter and started replicating this very attitude and so on.

Me on antag. I was destroyed so easily early into my days on here which has sort of been engraved into my mind into making me more cautious. Quite annoying.

As we all suffered in the early days of Golden, I’m sure you too did.

Only after my character was well established I was at least a little confident I would have been able to walk to my office without being murdered by the tide. And this not because they wouldn’t have tried, but because a lot of more robust people than me would have protected me from the tide!

Leave your past where it is, behind you, or your future will never look different!

@Ambiic

@DimitriSTK88

Because if all the 3 engineers on board, plus the CE and 2 atmosians, will truly start acting professionally, under CE’s supervision, the I can assure you that you’ll get the whole situation fixed and the atmosphere restorated in less than 10 minutes.

Or if it is late into the game ask the Roboticist to make a Ripley with an RCD and it’ll take two minutes for the hull itself.

I would love to interact more with robotics!

But unluckily, after more than 1k hours, I still… have not been able to, very effectively. The rare times I asked the roboticists were uncooperative or there were simply no resources.

@Ambiic

@DimitriSTK88

Maybe we could put a small 10 hour requirement to play as one before playing any other head.

I’d like to see a Second in Command for each department. Like the CMO having their own variant of a Warden. A lil’ mini expert Doctor who does everything CMO does and acts like the CMO during their absence, but never does anything related to Command.

The true point we should concern us about this suggestion is, would make the CMO act more responsasibly toward the rest of command?

Because medbay, at least up until chaos erupts, it is still one of the most if not the most calm department to be in. Because sec might be patrolling the station or maintenance, but medbay personnel instead should probably be inside medbay waiting for their help to be needed.

Frankly I don’t know. I’m not opposed to it in principle but I fail to see the benefit it would bring.

@Ambiic

@8816boo

this is more of a game design issue than a player issue, and personally I like to play cult/ sec investigating cult.

THIS!! Game heavily favours acting and not talking. Voice-to-voice when? Let’s implement AI generates voices in the game so we can at least talk whilst walking in a line. lol

But why are you concerning yourself with winning, Markus?

The game favors itself being a game, that’s for sure! It’s up to us to use the base it offers us in order to have more enjoyable interactions with each other! Especially when it comes to be traitors or sec handling the traitors!

@Ambiic

@8816boo

with HoPs talking to service employees and involving themselves more in their projects and in solving their problems.

I played HoP once earlier this week and this is exactly the vibe I get from them. Just walking around and checking out each department and their head if nothing else!

My compliments!

I think I saw you playing some of these shifts while I was observing and I loved seeing you interacting with the rest of the crew/command!

@Ambiic

@JOYK1LLZ

Additionally being the Captain’s gentle, open left hand is also a really good thing, helping to co-ordinate departments and such

I think for this reason that HoP should get additional radio keys. Perhaps mot Sec, but at least Medbay, Engineering and Science, so that they may communicate with the different departments. Maybe even acting like an announcer!

If you’re my HOP, you’ll discover that I, as the captain, often treat my HOP with 2 or 3 gifts.

My spare headset and my spare gloves! Even my carapace if I go for wearing just my parade jacket!

But yeah, the captain’s spare headset is a must to have as HOP!

@Ambiic

@DimitriSTK88

Even if someone is dying on common, the chances to notice it as a captain are very slim. And even then, it’s not your job at all to intervene.

But it is your job to remain informed and rarely do heads inform, why would they if it has been said over common?

But see, why are you again concerning yourself with ACTING on it?

Check the manifest! If you have no CMO and no doctors, you will probably have at least a paramedic.

COORDINATE that lone paramed for the rescue! It’s not uncommon for me to check on the crew sensors console and warn medbay if I see dead crew that they might have missed.

But I do never act first and foremost on anything, at least not if it doesn’t happen straight before my eyes or I do have at least 1 crewmember in the pertinent department!

@Ambiic

@DimitriSTK88

Well, why, instead than blindly trusting, do not take the time of just asking a single question made up by 3 letters?

Why?

I do, then they tell me then I tell them “ok”

Well…

Try to make them reason that the threat maybe is not as big as they make it out to be?

That with science (or whatever department you’re manning in that moment) at their side, this small emergency will never escalate into a station-wide threat?

@Ambiic

@DimitriSTK88

If you sign for COMMAND, you DON’T sign to ACT. You sign to MANAGE.

Tell that to the miners demanding upgrades, doctors demanding research, wounded demanding treatment, everyone demanding power, and so on while your employees or coworker are off doing God knows what. Either people are completely independent, as in they know their job and do it, or don’t know shit and or are an antag busy murdering.

See, that’s the usual attrition we are still facing.

Repeat the request, call people directly by their names more than one times, even asking “XXX, do you copy?” if they do not answer the first 2 times you tried.

If we do not commit ourselves (knowing full well it won’t be easy nor we’ll be successful during the first couple of shifts we try) to at least TRY to DIRECT, you can bet your crew won’t bother TRYING to COMPLY with your instructions.

@Ambiic

I ask if anyone is doing X, Y or Z, and if not then I guess I’ll do it myself. Please do note that I very often only play during low pop hours, usually around 10 people.

Low pop is a different beast.

There you need to act as crew, even as a head, because there’s literally not enough to crew to cover the basic needs.

In all other cases? Do manage!

@Ambiic

@DimitriSTK88

You have an entire department that directly depends on you and should obey each single directive coming from you!

Doesn’t work, tried it as the CMO. While I can within 10 minutes make 30 sheets of plastic, 150u atropine, 60u inacusine, 60u oculine, 45u antihol, and just gotten the first batch of 40u Synthflesh patches. Almost every other chemist can’t make a basic Oxandrocyclic (Oxandrolone and Salicyclic Acid combined) after an hour and then they made Trico and called it a day. Even tried to fire them of which they then stormed off and became a liability.

But Markus this just proves you’re far more proficient in your job than your subordinates.

And in a way that’s the way it should be!

If the station needs chem output and your chemists aren’t supplying them, instead than doing them by yourself as CMO do ask them. If they’re struggling, then show them how! Direct them mentioning what they should do it and how, step by step.

They’ll cherish the occasion to learn more often than not and you will have successfully managed and trained a vital resource that will be far more efficient in this and all future shifts!

As your hypothetical captain, I would say mission accomplished, CMO Markus!

@Ambiic

@DimitriSTK88

So no RP reason at all aside “I know because I’m command and so I know(the antags and their secrets)”.

And that’s part of the game. Not going to lie, an actual tutorial of some sort of implementation would be cool. Maybe even weekly “How to” weekends for people wanting to learn Command or other roles would be nice and lore friendly.

I would love the idea but I doubt is actionable.

Why not trying to better each other up while we do better ourselves and then, leading through example, obtain the same end goal?

It would feel even more organic this way!

@Ambiic

@DimitriSTK88

But no, I don’t feel uncomfortable about it?

So walking down an alleyway with tons of new symbolical graffiti in your local neighbourhood is fine to you?

I will post you a video of something happened not even 15 days ago at Naples :

(66) Napoli-Eintracht, scontri fra tifosi: sassaiole, lancio di oggetti e auto incendiate - YouTube

And this all happened for a football match! But we italians are very peculiar about football matches.

As the great Winston Churchill once said :

@Winston Churchill

"Italians lose wars as if they were football matches, and football matches as if they were wars

So believe me, I don’t know where you live, and sure, the case above was an extreme case of a way of doing that is standardly less violent in its routine for us italians. But I wouldn’t even bat an eye for some harmless graffiti!

Like, literally, batting an eye!

Usually cars do not get always burned nor the violence is so extreme, but after each football match, or before… let’s say that we italians can be the RL incarnation of the tide, station-wide!

@Ambiic

@DimitriSTK88

You will have a dead robber AND a murderer on your hands to deal with.

Or the robber will be rational and realize, it might not be a good idea to rob this place 6 times in a row.

Oh I would love if that would be the case, Markus.

I bet we all would!

But let me tell you that I’m sure you do not go around punching people, or overreacting violently, when people are rude to you in RL.

This kind of impulse control is what separates you from being a criminal and what keeps you out of jail.

Criminals instead do not act very rationally and are very fast to act on their impulses whenever faced with the occasion to do so.

It would be an even more wonderful world that it already is if this wasn’t the case!

@Ambiic

@DimitriSTK88

Here was where, for the second time, the idea your mindset might be part of the problem started to make its way into my mind.

I rarely play Command now days, only ever acting so don’t blame me. Just play the game. Rarely does the alert lower. I think this is an issue with the game as it isn’t designed for a new wave of antags. If all antags are dealt with it is just another shift. Perhaps one or two arrives and becomes an antag but other wise, no, it is a greenshift now.

Oh I’m not personally blaming you Markus!

But I think your mindset could improve, shifting a little bit more from acting on your gamer instinct, that are absolutely right from a gaming point of view to… a far more suboptimal, but far more pleasant and engaging, RP attitude!

And let me tell you, having spectated you just recently tells me you’re underselling yourself!

I saw you interacting very frequently and very well in the few time I was able to witness you.

@Ambiic

@DimitriSTK88

The ENTIRE station! 3 or 4 dead crewmembers being violently killed can be argued that it still not warrants for a blue alert!

I agree with this. Maybe a few minor notes for all heads could set 'em straight? I don’t even remember this from reading Command SOP!

I hope they won’t get even noted.

All I wanted to do with that report is to spread more awareness about this kind of things, because that’s something I regularly see abused.

Probably they are so accustomed to raising the alert in a gamey/mechanical way that they too didn’t remember that particular, but very dear to me, piece of SOP!

@Ambiic

@DimitriSTK88

Green again even if there are other active threats.

Which there rarely is as the threat is hiding in maints. It’s difficult to keep track on why there is a blue alert. Say that you find the threat and jail them or whatnot. Why was the blue alert raised? Already forgotten by then.

See, this could be a good exercise.

Do you remember why the alert was raised? No? Then lower it.

Do you remember it? Yes? That particular problem was dealt with? Then lower it.

There isn’t anything more wrong that leaving the alert elevated without any reason. Still, it does still happens.

Let’s all try to do better than this, together!

@Ambiic

@DimitriSTK88

Because if as a miner you never communicated, reminding me of your existence and bonding with me

Miners are gamers. Jokingly said “miner check!” while operating on the miner while he was awake, they found it funny. Honestly, almost need to do that semi-regularly. During my hours I think I’ve built-up a bit of a reputation to talk to the miners decently. Often immediately offering a mining mech, fixing their ore machine, Quantum pad, and so on.

Good on your Markus!

@Ambiic

@DimitriSTK88

If I can’t remember even your name because you never interacted during the whole round, you can bet I won’t remember to check the GPS once you went radio silent… because you were from shift start!

Spot on. Well, most of the time miners don’t need to communicate. Sure you might say they need bdtter ore satchels, but they only need better ore satchels because the station want resources. You get enough resources to upgrade your weapon and then fuck off for the rest of the round. What about late game for miners? Well you get your gamer gear and show it off on the station and MAYBE go mining a lil’ bit because you feel generous. There is no benefit for miners to mine.

I was a miner main for a long, looong time.

There are only 3 megafauna I killed, the hyerophant, the blood-drunk and the legion.

And after I killed them once, I usually never killed them again. Unless it’s the blood-drunk, I love that chain, I must admit.

And let me tell you, I mine for mining. Because it lets me be outside the barrage of problems that can be occuring on the station, while still being able to interact and to enjoy sharing my time with others.

When a miner does look for benefits for mining, at least before having dropped his third load, than in my opinion that’s not a good miner.

But once again, that’s a department that usually isn’t very directed, so once again, it is on us to improve it!

@Ambiic

That said, as a Roboticist I am VERY dependant on the miners and love those who do mine. Especially those who mine enough for me to continue work in Robotics

Encourage those who do acknowledging their hard work and telling your colleague to do the same!

People are starved for encouragements and recognitions, in their real lives too!

Sometimes a few kind words can really go a long way!

@Ambiic

@DimitriSTK88

I’m sure you enrich our games by your very presence! As all the other wonderful people of bee do!

Despite English not being your mother tongue, you do have a way with your words to be very polite. I like that.

I don’t mind being criticised, I prefer it in order to learn. That’s how I learn things and better myself. <3

Thanks Markus!

For me it’s the same, I love a good old feedback!

It doesn’t need to be positive, just a little bit polite!

Glad you came back to discuss further, friend!

[Ambiic]

Just gonna change the AI to give you Sec guns. ez lol

[Ambiic]

@DimitriSTK88

The next time you see something like that happen, communicate on command offering feedback on why that line of reasoning is bollocks!

I did, AI hinted at it.

His response? You’re not a real RD (I was acting) so your opinion doesn’t matter. Felt like it was a case of him wanting to get off, just cryo then.

Also, completely unrelated but I held a decently fun event as acting Captain when I joined Sage solo. Which was restoring lavaland. It was the longest round I’ve had on sage, 6 hours long! And roughly 20 to 30 people by the end of the shift. I was ready go on for longer. Apparently someone joined as a ghost when the round went on for 45 minutes expecting it to end in 30 minutes. lol

@DimitriSTK88

As we all suffered in the early days of Golden, I’m sure you too did.

Started playing in about August, so I wasn’t part of the Golden era. This was during modern Sage. Sometimes by very robust antags getting an easy kill. Sometimes by robust Sec getting an easy stun. I’ve had moments as a chemist when I have all flavours of grenades, weapons and such, and… still feel incredibly weak. The one time I actually felt safe if I were to engage in sny sort of combat if was when I hired people (with permission from an admin) to be part of the Syndicate and helped me. This did not apply for my last incursion round which consisted of gamer antags wannabe Nukies.

@DimitriSTK88

or there were simply no resources.

That’s why I always immediately make a mining mech as a roboticist. You really have to. Either that or be useless for 30+ minutes for the miners to bring in a total of… 100 iron plates. Enough fir maybe half a mech. Used to just go mining without talking to the miners, but after I was warned for stealing their job I’ve started bugging them a lot more of taking and using the mech. A miner bragged about getting 200 iron ore and then made their jaws drop when I shoved in 1 000 iron ore. lol

PSA to all miners. USE THE MINING MECH! Literally made for mining! Tears through lavaland like butter.

@DimitriSTK88

But why are you concerning yourself with winning, Markus?

Winning? I like doing my job and I like progressing. I am one of the few people who genuinely don’t mind greenshifts. I enjoy doing robotics, mining, bit of R&D, and setting up Quantum pads for everyone. I feel satisfied when I’ve setup a Pad for the Miners and Explorers and also a Quantum Circle or Hub for getting around the station itself. I would even be happy to help others set up machines and such if they requested it. I enjoy helping others. Additionally, going back to your question. It’s not about winning. It’s about time. We got roughly two hours and I want to spend it doing stuff. I like talking to some people, some reoccurring people makes me happy to see them and we do some small talk. Or just generally mess around.

@DimitriSTK88

Try to make them reason that the threat maybe is not as big as they make it out to be?

Perhaps begging the question whether it is a station threat or an isolated crime could be ideal for the future.

@DimitriSTK88

call people directly by their names

I am shite when it comes to remembering names. lol

And keeping the crew manifest window open unless I started with it.

@DimitriSTK88

If the station needs chem output and your chemists aren’t supplying them, instead than doing them by yourself as CMO do ask them. If they’re struggling, then show them how! Direct them mentioning what they should do it and how, step by step.

Thing is that I do my work very routinely. As you can imagine all recipes are built into my head and I do them on the fly with zero waste products, before they are requested and in great quantity. I used to make roughly 135 to 270 Oxandrocyclic (10u) pills consisting of 2700 to 5400 units of reagents within 30 to 45 minutes of the shift and distribute it to medbay and sec in bottles. This is a specific workflow very few people can do. And while I don’t expect the same results or greater, I do expect some work being done to treat the basic four damages, including synthflesh. Did any chemist do that? Not that I have noticed. Can I teach them? It’d take one and a half shifts. I’ve considered making a tutorial sort of thing that I can hand to them in character on good medicines and how they are produced but feels like a waste of time.

@DimitriSTK88

I saw you interacting very frequently and very well in the few time I was able to witness you.

Thanks? I interact when I see a reason to talk to a person. That’s why I didn’t used to talk to miners before. I like efficency and optimization puzzles. That’s why I love Factorio and absolutely hate Chemistry factories in this game.

@DimitriSTK88

All I wanted to do with that report is to spread more awareness about this kind of things, because that’s something I regularly see abused.

Wasn’t thinking about them specifically but yeah. Just a few pokes from admins to Command mentioning that SOP line would do some good unless someone mentions it in character.

@DimitriSTK88

Encourage those who do acknowledging their hard work and telling your colleague to do the same!

People are starved for encouragements and recognitions, in their real lives too!

Sometimes a few kind words can really go a long way!

Well said! :Ɗ

[DimitriSTK88]

@Ambiic

Also, @DimitriSTK88, I’ve also tried a bit with making extends to the SOP detailing things such as what chemicals I want available and it wasn’t well received. I can send them over Discord if you wish to see them.

Absolutely!

I do apologize for not having already answered you yesterday but I was tired as hell.

@Ambiic

@DimitriSTK88

The next time you see something like that happen, communicate on command offering feedback on why that line of reasoning is bollocks!

I did, AI hinted at it.

His response? You’re not a real RD (I was acting) so your opinion doesn’t matter. Felt like it was a case of him wanting to get off, just cryo then.

Well for sure this wasn’t a truly good nor positive interaction.

You were met with some blunt gamer opposition.

That’s a reason to continue insist, though, not the opposite!

@Ambiic

@DimitriSTK88

As we all suffered in the early days of Golden, I’m sure you too did.

Started playing in about August, so I wasn’t part of the Golden era. This was during modern Sage. Sometimes by very robust antags getting an easy kill. Sometimes by robust Sec getting an easy stun.

In this game you’re always 1 wall stun/1 slip/1 shove/1 disarm away from total failure.

Another reason to focus our attention on enjoying the RP part of it, instead than the gaming part!

@Ambiic

@DimitriSTK88

But why are you concerning yourself with winning, Markus?

It’s not about winning. It’s about time. We got roughly two hours and I want to spend it doing stuff. I like talking to some people, some reoccurring people makes me happy to see them and we do some small talk.

But you see Markus, the first half of the discourse doesn’t truly match with the other half.

One of the things I like the most about SS13 is its round-based nature.

It doesn’t matter how badly you screwed up last round, next the station will start fine again. It doesn’t matter how many things you mined, accumulated or produced, they will be all gone once the shuttle will arrive.

That’s another incentive to interact more, and not less!

And the end of the day the only thing that we will be left with will be the interactions we were gifted and the ones we gifted ourselves!

Let’s focus on what truly matters, the human side, instead than wasting all our efforts toward some pixels that will be resetted roughly each 90 minutes.

@Ambiic

@DimitriSTK88

call people directly by their names

I am shite when it comes to remembering names. lol

And keeping the crew manifest window open unless I started with it.

It’s just a matter of making a habit out of it.

Like you corrected me with the exact wording of your name in the above posts, people do care about having their name correcly spoken and remembered.

If we don’t make the effort to at least give them this basic respect, then we can’t ask them to respect us in a return.

The effort must be mutual.

And as command, it must start from us!

@Ambiic

@DimitriSTK88

If the station needs chem output and your chemists aren’t supplying them, instead than doing them by yourself as CMO do ask them. If they’re struggling, then show them how! Direct them mentioning what they should do it and how, step by step.

Thing is that I do my work very routinely. As you can imagine all recipes are built into my head and I do them on the fly with zero waste products, before they are requested and in great quantity. I used to make roughly 135 to 270 Oxandrocyclic (10u) pills consisting of 2700 to 5400 units of reagents within 30 to 45 minutes of the shift and distribute it to medbay and sec in bottles. This is a specific workflow very few people can do. And while I don’t expect the same results or greater, I do expect some work being done to treat the basic four damages, including synthflesh. Did any chemist do that? Not that I have noticed. Can I teach them? It’d take one and a half shifts. I’ve considered making a tutorial sort of thing that I can hand to them in character on good medicines and how they are produced but feels like a waste of time.

Markus, teaching and helping others will never be a waste of time!

Investing that time today means to have permanently bettered another person’s skills! And you will be able to see the results forever, from that very round on!

If he does the same, then we’ll have a cascading effect that will never ends, exponentially improving the skills of everyone on the server!

And it might all start with you!

@Ambiic

@DimitriSTK88

I saw you interacting very frequently and very well in the few time I was able to witness you.

Thanks? I interact when I see a reason to talk to a person.

A good reason to interact with others might be the loneliness of being alone, very far from home, on a solitary space station where you can only work.

If you start talking with others just to pleasantly pass the time, you might discover you have a lot more in common with them then you might have thought, initially!

[RDS88]

@DimitriSTK88

Markus, teaching and helping others will never be a waste of time!

Investing that time today means to have permanently bettered another person’s skills! And you will be able to see the results forever, from that very round on!

If he does the same, then we’ll have a cascading effect that will never ends, exponentially improving the skills of everyone on the server!

I can confirm this, to sickening effect when talking about xenobio.Three or four xenobiologists learned from and challenged each other, and this seems to have cascaded down to most of the server that was learning xenobiology at the time.

[ColonelOrion]

Another banger thread from Dmitri.
+1 my man!
(Thanks to the shout out to using the AI like the star trek people use the ship’s computer!)