These 2 things do not go together. Goon doesn’t let anyone use their code without multiple people giving permission and an annoying process of confirming this permission.
Detective honestly suffers from… a lack of things to do. Most people know about the prints and fibers so they just prepare a different disposable set of clothes to wear while doing crime and then swap them out, leaving no traces for the Detective to pick up. And when they do leave traces, they’re usually already found by security before Det finishes his investigation.
Porting doesn’t mean 1:1 copying the code. For example, Borbop has managed to port Goon’s stamina combat to Monke without looking at their code at all and writing it from scratch.
Coding something from scratch while never looking at the original code the idea is based on is not porting.
McCoy here. Here’s my take on it:
So, Detective is supposed to be an investigator, he scans the area, does interviews, asks questions, finds evidence, etc. And when doing interviews, having a way to defend yourself (baton, firearm, etc.), like it or not, is a factor into it. If Detective doesn’t have a means to defend himself, he’s not gonna be taken seriously, instead he’ll be seen as a glorified Lawyer more than anything, and therefore people will be less forthcoming with information, or just flat out kill you if they’re the culprit in a murder case…
SecHUDs… not too big of a loss on that. Not ideal, but I’d prefer to have em for Investigation purposes at least. At least trade it for something, jesus…
Now, Detective’s gear for self defense is meant for exactly that: Self defense. The baton was meant exactly for this. Taking it out makes little to no sense at all. The Detective’s firearm, locked in a cabinet. Why lock the Detective’s firearm in a cabinet while the Bartender’s remains free if we’re gonna do that? We don’t see people complaining about Bartender, now do we? Why’s Detective that much different?
Why not just make lethal ammo for Detective harder to come by? Why not give Detectives some incentive to BE a Detective in the first place? Why not give them new gear if we’re gonna take some stuff away? If we’re gonna lock the firearm in a cabinet, why not give it a buff of some kind?
My point is, at least make the changes balanced, don’t nerf the Detective entirely. Give players a reason to play it… (and I don’t mean for rolling traitor on it)
With no incentives, people aren’t gonna play it…
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Because the bartender doesn’t go out to hunt valids, and cannot argue that it’s his role. You’re arguing for removing the bartender’s shotgun, not for leaving the det’s revolver on green alert.
If the “incentive” to play det is the gun with lethal ammo as non-sec, then it cannot work ever lol.
I wish people would stop saying “improve don’t remove” and go improve instead.
Never said I was arguing for removing Bartender’s shotgun. I’m simply making a point that both weapons are used strictly for self defense, so why lock them up if they essentially serve the same purpose?
As for incentives, I’m leaving that open ended for people to come up with better ideas. I never said the incentives in this case was the firearm itself.
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lets give the detective a nerf gun he can use on green and a wiffle ball bat
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Bad idea, nerf gun can load riot darts and the det will use those.
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There is a difference between secoffs and dets and why dets could be improved with just a bit of paperwork
Casual seccie On green
See’s Valid!!! (aka no id or just some gasmask suspicious/contrabd guy or somethin)
then realises he is on green and cant just harm baton and cuff
next step for seccie is usually to ask him to come along and if he doesnt the guy usually gets beaten because probabable cause or just a minor infraction like entering medbay lobby while being full hp(actually happend got 15 min for my bag contraband) and said antags round is ruined and usually sad
Casual detective gameplay currently
criminals usually get sloppy and leave evidence and you relay the information to the seccies which leads to either A immediate arrest and beating or B you are completely ignored because Mime talked and you eventually you are just bored as your only gimmick is being alcoholic because your job sucks
Improved Detective
Find and Compile Evidence and present to a warden or a higher rank and go down and actually rp the arrest as your gun is Strictly Self Defense, present the evidence against the perpetrator and ask him to surrender (note the detective is the most civil servantish member of sec and shouldnt just blast valid in a hostage sitiation cuz hostage can be cloned he should value the life of himself and crew)(escape and call for help if possible)
Detectives Tapp and Sing try to arrest Jigsaw. Saw - YouTube this is the best representation of a good detective i can find but it is a bit bloody in the end
( i actuallly had the exact thing happen as in the video exept they didnt save the reverse beartrapped felind cmo and i escaped into space right as i was gonna enter crit because seccies shoot first)
Whats the point of a test pr of the players get no input? The whole update had been described by a friend as follows: “whos going to take the detective seriously when they know hes unarmed” and “whats the point of doing detective work if you cant come back alive at all to report back”. No antag will answer the detectives questions because they know hes unarmed and probably will just kill him once hes alone.
Keep the baton, sec hud and maybe switch out the revolver for some kinda nonlethal round. I also thought the revolver was nonlethal unless the detectove was a traitor.
I think this is more of a radical solution to a case by case problem. So are we going to remove explosive reactions from chemistry now? Or the ability for cargo to order guns? What about the fact that anyone on the station can make a spear and start stabbing or that bartender starts with a shotgun out in the open?
I have a feeling I know what round this pr was made after and I’m just frustrated at how poorly thought out it was.
Also if detective is nonsec then why do they have to follow the green, blue, red rules? The announcement specifically says security.
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It depends on what the PR actually entails. For this specific example, I’d assume they’re keeping note of how detectives act instead of listening to the forums.
Also, you do get input. Only 3!! people have actually commented on the PR on github.
Judging by the PR’s date… you know a specific round in early october last year?
Because detective is sec. They are just not sec officer
So github commenta are all that matter? Why the hell is there even a feedback or suggestion section on the forums anyway??
I can’t say for sure on this, but I believe plenty of contributors simply don’t care about the forums, so your best bet is always github comments.
Sometimes contributors use this section for feedback, see: mapping threads, polls (emag poll, for example) etc.
Sometimes they listen to forums.
But as I said, your best and most reliable bet is github itself. Make an account, make a comment. The PR is right here
i really think det could be fixed with some paperwork and slight SOP change and for det to gain his non/lethals back ( nothin bad about the armor tho makes sense)
Revolvers have Rubber shot by default.
A good question is “why can the detective print off lethal ammo at the SEC lathe, or even have access to the SEC office when he has his own?”
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I used to play detective a whole lot before the antag eligibility change, and to me this just seems like a solution in search of a problem. I can remember pulling out my revolver in self defense all of maybe three times, and when I had to I realized:
The detective revolver is straight up hot garbage. It was garbage with lethals, and it is garbage with rubber shot. Just target legs with the baton and skedaddle.
BUT I will still be loathe to lose it. Guns are cool, revolvers are cooler, and guns I can reskin to be a single action army are the coolest.
Also the antag eligibility is just straight up bad. A non-trivial amount of detective players and lawyers and brig physicians play the role just to antag roll. They roll antag, they win. They don’t roll antag? They validhunt. It’s win win for them. Plus the detective had an issue with being ignored even before they could be an antag so now whatever proof the detective comes up with is taken with a massive pinch of salt since only they have forensic scanners and people know they could be spoofing things.
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What if det had to retrieve his revolver and stunstick from the warden and give them a reason on green, like he’s gonna be interviewing a suspect or something. Maybe fill out paperwork.
I’m biased tho cos i love paperwork
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I invisoned it more of a you need a warrant for blue and green alert and like a official one with a reason and the weapons are primarily to actually put a punch behind your words or escape if said criminal pulls out a laser machine gun
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At the end of the day though, this just puts the revolver out of the detectives hands for all of 5 minutes before blue alert is declared for basically no reason without the required vote because some random guy can just tell the AI “Law 2 blue alert”.