Demdisco punished for gibbing guy who tried to murder him twice, note appeal


Admin’s CKEY:
Sergei Koralev

Is this for both servers or just one? If so, which one:

Which server did the ban happen on?

Ban Type:

Ban Length:
Perma Note

Ban Date (MM/DD/YYYY):

Round ID:

Ban Reason:
valided HOP after HOP tried to kill them twice. Gibbed hop assuming they were valid when nothing else specifically made the HOP valid. Validity is confusing.

Appeal Reason:
The HoP tried to kill me for deepfrying Ian, I crit him and let him go
HoP comes back a second time with lethals, again (This was handled on his side) so I gib him
Since when is someone killing you not worthy of them being valid, and since when can’t you gib people who come back a second time for no reason?

Additional Information:
Initially Mat handled the ticket and kept arguing that I didn’t even have the right to kill him, second admin (banning admin) said I just couldn’t gib him, please investigate Mat’s knowledge of the rules.

To further add to my case

LRP Validity rules state they’re not valid, but they can be handled in space law ways, doesn’t that literally just mean that you can do what security can do with them? A.k.a anything?
(Rules - BeeStation Wiki)

I told you that you shouldn’t have gibbed them, that is different from just killing.

killing ian makes you valid to everyone (or atleast used to), which I consider to be a dumb rule

Validity rules do not apply to hearsays, also just because you made yourself valid to someone, doesn’t mean they are valid to you.

You kept arguing that I should have crit them, even the second time and that I didn’t even have the rights to kill them then gib them, it was Sergei who argued I shouldn’t have gibbed him but had the right to kill him.

It has always been that when people try to kill you, they’s valid to ya, especially when they’re here to gib you themselves

You stop arguing when I ask you “Okay, what if the hop did kill me? What then?”

Yes because proper escalation means you should crit someone, not kill. I even tried to tell you several times to read escalation page so you’d see that you could’ve escalated to killing if he engaged a 3rd time.
Hell, maybe I wouldn’t even care if you just killed them and thrown out of the kitchen, but round removing?

Okay, but that’s not true and it’s not true with current rules too.

I didn’t stop arguing, I told you that I would’ve bwoinked the HoP instead lol.
And the HoP was bwoinked, I did call admins to deal with the HoP cause he shot me almost to death too for no reason.

I did that to the guy trying to gib me, I gave him an excess amount of leniency.
I took the go ahead the second time he came, and as far as I know (and he was bwoinked for this), going after people who crit you (despite being the aggressor) and then let you get healed, is pretty fucking bad on its own.

You’re contradicting yourself here, was I allowed to kill them as Sergei said, or was I not according to what you just said?

Killing and round removing are completely two different things.

No. You gave him an excess amount of leniency by what, not gibbing him the first time he assaulted you? That is not how it works.

You keep saying assault as if he didn’t shoot me with a riot shotgun as much as possible with the intent to kill.

Make your position clear on this please and choose, I can’t discuss this with you when you’re being too vague.
Was I: Allowed to kill and not gib OR not allowed to kill nor gib.

You were allowed to crit, but if you’d just kill and let people take care of the body I wouldn’t mind. You were not allowed to gib.

Ah, I see that I’ve caused another explosion after stepping onto golden. Give me a minute, I’ll explain the reasoning.

I’ll try another approach to reasoning with you then.

It’s impossible to escalate from step 4 to step 5 according to the logic you’re using, because it’s impossible to since escalating to step 5 requires someone being in CRITICAL CONDITION

He went in for the kill and so did I.
Don’t go around trying to kill people if you’re trying to stay in the round.

you have step 5 so if someone tries to fuck with you 3rd time, you can kill them

Generally, you should not try to remove people from the round as non antag, if someone really is a shitter (but not valid to you) you should ahelp, and after that take steps like gibbing someone.

Killing Ian makes you valid to everyone. Shut up and cope. :joker:

1 Like

Here, a funny image of escalation to prove it to you that I read it and the flaw that lies within it.

I’m not arguing I wasn’t valid, I am arguing that people tryna kill you make them valid.

No, you need to see something to make person valid to you.

So, let’s start with this as a fact: Validity is an extension of the escalation policy. This does NOT mean that escalation to maximum level leads to validity.

Escalation is as follows: They push you, you punch them, they hit you back, you hit them with a toolbox, they hit you with a crowbar, you go for the crit, they start going for the crit, they die or you die. It’s the process that we use to keep “I only shoved him, why the fuck did he shoot me and throw me in the morge?” from happening.

Validity is a system which allows for complete removal of people from the round (gibbing, incineration, brain-frying, etc…)

Just because someone has reached escalation max does not make them valid,

If they get to escalation 5 you don’t have to get them medical attention, but they are not valid which means that they may not be removed from the round permanently by any means you see fit.

The kill was fine, the gib was not.

  • @Demdisco attempted to deepfry Ian for reasons unknown which immediately made him valid to anyone who witnessed it based on the current validity system.
  • This situation immediately made Dem the aggressor, with anyone attacking him being the defender.
  • HoP attempting to lethal Dem meant that Dem could meet the ante and did.
  • HoP reengaging made him aggressor and Dem the defender, allowing him to increase in escalation by one step.
  • If they were already at step 5 (lethals/intent to kill) then the logical +1 to kill would be gibbing/spacing/round ending

I don’t necessarily agree with the escalation policy or validity system as written, and I think HoP definitely shouldn’t have went for the throat over Dem trying to deepfry a simple mob (even if it’s Ian) or that people should carelessly valid themselves BY deepfrying Ian, but I can see Dem’s reasoning on gibbing - he left the man on crit and look what happened.

I also don’t agree with non-antags ever round-ending others, but people need to learn when you lose a fight to lick your wounds and move on, not seek revenge and create a destructive cycle of validity. HoP coming back pushed Dem into a bit of a corner, as he didn’t want to spend his entire round looking over his shoulder for the man in blue.