Daniel Cola Player Report - Ro5940 Ruling Disagreement

CKEY:
Itsmeowdev
Your Discord:
its_meow#6903
Offender’s CKEY:
Ro5940 - Handling Admin
Yobrocharlie - Reported Player
Offender’s In-Game Name (if relevant):
N/A - Handling Admin
Daniel Cola - Reported Player
Date (MM-DD-YYYY):
09-10-2022
Round Number:
40342
Rules Broken (if relevant):
R1: You must roleplay
R2: No Powergaming (validhunting)
Part of Admin/Mentor Conduct Broken (if relevant):
N/A
Incident Description:
I started off as a changeling, swap with the geneticist who is also a ling to get closer to my target, the other geneticist.

I go into genetics, sit around for a bit, try to convince them to give themselves rad mutation, doesn’t work. So I use mute and cryo sting. They notice and start running into medbay, upon which I armblade and attack them until they fall into crit. A paramed and the clown see this, clown runs away, I start dragging the body back into genetics then into the science/maints hallway. The paramed (Daniel Cola) sees me with the armblade and yet continues to chase me back into genetics (an area outside his access), and shoves me against a wall. I’m stunned, and then I just so happen to be unfortunate enough that a secoff comes out of maints nearby and stuns me, I’m dragged to chapel and cremated.

Ling round over in <15mins.

I wholeheartedly believe Daniel was breaking R1 and R2 by deciding to chase someone who could very actively kill him and engage in combat despite not being combat trained - and also having no fear when it comes to a shapeshifting monster with a bloody arm blade. I think it was unfair to me and resulted in the game being less interesting because another antag got le-valided before the round could even get going.

I ahelped this and it was investigated, but I basically got told “You had a body in crit, it’s the paramed’s job to recover it, so this is IC”.

We had no prior IC interaction, or anything that would justify this. It was still blue alert, the only threats known to sec at the time was the giant xenobiology creature being contained nearby. There was plenty of sec, and one was even nearby. Chasing me was completely uncalled for.

Chasing after someone who is going to kill you, just to get a body is not RP, and it’s also validhunting. I think at a minimum this is worth a note on the player, and not an IC classification.

8 Likes

parameds are in the grey area when it comes to chasing valids… if you have a body their job is to get that body to medical. (sometimes its a dangerous job)

Their job is not to kill the valid, but they can defend themselves while doing their job and this is the real kicker here had that secoff not been there would daniel just nab the body and book it or stick around and kill you?

yeah, last I checked there is a inconsistently enforced rule/ruling regarding Paramedic conduct that if an antag is in possession of the body, you’re not suposed to run in and get said body directly from said antag.

However I neither think Daniel was in the wrong with persuing you or any lack of RP, since as previously stated, it’s his designated job to haul bodies back from perilous situations, just how perilous that is, that part is up in the air.

But additionally, arm blade or no, anyone caught pulling a body into maint is suspicious as all hell and can be considered a threat to the person they are dragging about.

While I agree the incident is a bit stinky, all Daniel did was wall shove you to yoink a corpse.
The security officer showing up? What can I say other than Murphy’s law, anything that can coincidentally go wrong, inevitably will go coincidentally wrong.

1 Like

Me when i see a horrible mutant with a grotesque blade of flesh dragging a corpse (my first instinct is to chase it and shove it). Im fairly certain parameds exist just to recover bodies and stabilize them not act as bodysnatchers. Like for instance if multiple people are wounded by an explosion the parameds should rush in and save them but if its an armed assaliant taking a body you shouldnt try to steal it from them since they can very legitimately kill you and you have no way of knowing what its capable of.

7 Likes

no they’re not.
You shouldn’t be chasing antags to get body from them. You are not meant to throw away your life saving colleagues. You are not combat trained, you are not even fully medically trained.

13 Likes

Map for context.
image

This all occurred while I was dragging a body, so I was significantly slowed down.
Despite all the time to think about their actions, Daniel still chased me back into an area in which they did not have access, through two separate doors, with no security showing up until they heard Daniel and I fighting and came out of maints from nearby xenobio where an active incident was occurring.

2 Likes

so why do they get marked as IC every time? parameds snatch bodies every time from antags. I have yet to see or hear a single paramed being noted or banned for this kind of behaviour.

9 Likes

cus punishments vary from admin to admin

2 Likes

SoP
Paramedic No.2
“Paramedics must make reasonable efforts to recover any body with active tracking beacons that are in critical condition outside of Medbay.”

this is the closest thing to “Paramedics, you are to avoid interfering with antags directly” on the wiki.
Perhaps a Paramedic SoP update is in order.

SoP does not need to be updated, here’s why.

Rule #1: You Must Roleplay

Now, I don’t know about you, but if I was a plain old doctor employed at a medical center, my first reaction when I see a freakish monster with a fleshy armblade gore my coworker in front of me and start dragging the body away is not “I’m going to chase after it, shove it against a wall (repeatedly), and get my coworker’s body back!!!”

It’s to RUN!!! And call 911 (sec)!!!

The SoP is a set of “operating procedures”, not the rules. The rules in this case are more than enough to clarify the situation.

R2, No Powergaming.

R2.3:

Normal crewmembers are not experienced soldiers. You should generally call for help, rather than intervening directly.

  • This means no valid-hunting.
  • You should generally attempt to flee from combat or dangerous situations.

SoP is a subset of the rules included in R3, under “Do Your Job”.

The rules are the primary dictator of what is and is not okay, it doesn’t have to be in the paramedic SoP for it to not be okay.

2 Likes

While technically it doesn’t as you stated, i don’t believe adding a line of taking reasonable measures while ensuring you don’t die would hurt anything

Plenty of people could read paramed sop and think it’s their job to rush antags, no harm in making it clear there

5 Likes

Dunno if it matters but this person got perma’d for another reason.

1 Like

The reason is mid at best and my appeal is already up, I think that they definitely would not have wanted this outcome from a simple shove.

The player in question has been permanently banned, so any punishment doesn’t matter, but I still think this should be considered for the sake of consistent adminning.

2 Likes

That’s how it’ll likely go.

1 Like

The ro3245 has been talked to regarding this, and the situation has been cleared up.
There seems to have been a slight misinterpretation of what went down at the time, and he’s been cautioned to be more carefull and such.

We’re going to consider wether rules need to be clarified in this regard, though personaly i think its plenty obvious that running up the the genetic monster that just killed your coworker is not what a reasonable person would do.