Based on both poll and discussion in thread so far, a draft PR is now up with my plans.
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My answers:
I think Cyborgs are powerful in combat
I think Cyborgs should be weaker in combat
I donât like flashes being an overly centralized part of combat, and Cyborgs are one of the most extreme cases of this, both being always equipped with a flash and being unable to prevent their own weakness to flashes. Flashes are a major downside to their combat, but instant lose conditions shouldnât be a balancing point for making something otherwise exceptionally strong.
In all situations where the extremities of flash combat are ruled out, cyborgs are not only very strong, but encouraged or forced by their laws to get involved in combat for the sake of protecting crew. This in itself would be fine if not for the combination of extra HP, no damage slowdown and rapidly regenerating HP. For opponents without a flash, fighting a smart cyborg equipped with a welder is a lost battle because they will continually retreat, top up their HP and then come back for more moments later.
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mfw the poll is about how good they are at combat instead of how really flawed the concept is in general
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Special shoutout to medborgs sentencing you to death in a single second with injected chemicals, regardless of armor or protection.
I want a vote on removing all silicon roles.
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Cyborgs are arguably too strong, especially the self healing and heat immune engiborg and piercing mediborg. They are kind of a staple of SS13 though, its our unique thing no other game has.
I do agree flashes arenât a good component of gameplay. Instant, hard stuns are not fun. Before anyone says anything, shove stuns are way different than flashes. You have to put yourself in a bad position to be shoved down, and if you are shoved you can still move and try to move before they shove you again.
Arguably, even though it is overpowered a lot of the functionality of an engiborg is necessary. Lots of times engineers canât or wonât deal with an issue. Not to mention plasmaflood or delamming SM environments where a borg is practically necessary if you didnât already have the atmos hardsuit or firesuit handy.
I am just thankful secborgs are long gone at this point.
There isnât a catch-all answer.
The only truly strong thing about cyborgs is their fast movement speed coupled with no slowdown. With one single nerf to this they will be far more balanced. Their resistances to the environment are truly whatever, but their speed while still having these resistances is not.
This is because speed and stuns are king in combat. I hate it. I know lots of you hate it as well. But nothing beats being faster than your enemy and you cannot fight if you are paralyzed.
Everything else borgs have can be performed by humans equally if not better. Things like instant heals and big HP sound overpowered until you realize just how much raw power simply being able to process chems gives the crew. This is without mentioning the various other things crew can get, from direct counters to weapons, armor, powers, and other tech. In that sense cyborgs start pretty beefy but canât get very far, while crew starts weaker but can quickly snowball if allowed (ie threat to entire station). Meanwhile cyborgs die to one flash or emp, and every single crew member can make these.
Emagged and syndicate cyborgs are just straight up bonkers btw. But I treat those as a separate thing.
However the points above are about the power level of cyborgs.
Completely putting that to the side - I think thereâs a lot of bullshit about the role that could use changes.
- Laws, enslavement, ease of law change, lack of creativity for laws, lack of possibility to interpret laws creatively. You see validhunt laws or onehuman once, youâve seen em all.
- Stupidly limited toolsets. What a borg can and cannot do has no clear distinction.
- Inequality of usefulness. Engi is a badass able to repair, construct, power, etc. Medi is extremely based, able to save lives easier than a human. Miner kicks ass at both its job and in space combat (blobs, xenos). Peacekeeper fucks with tiders but canât fight real threats, and service might as well not exist.
- Lack of endgame. Likely due to less personal investment. Iâve seen borgs try to do creative things less than 10 times in 2000+ hours.
- Lots of initial knowledge required to fully use the job, also keeps newbies away from it.
I want a vote on removing all silicon roles.
Can we get a single good take from you in 2022
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Itâs so fucking stupid that when every time thereâs a Xeno queen, an entire cyborg killsquad rolls up to exterminate the queen with hit and run attacks.
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Tell me which chemicals these are? I would like to know and do they actually pierce armor & hardsuits ?
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No one even mentioned all borgs being able to hardstun people instantly by spinning 
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Borgs are confused when they spin and canât move mid spin without crashing into a wall and hard stunning themselves
Ah, so it did finally get nerfed, good riddance
Borgs are glass cannons and definitely underpowered in combat.
They are the only ones that can be one shot hardstunned from distance.
Also one of their hard counters, flashes, is super common and easy to obtain.
Unless you bring up borg-blob interactions, borgs are significantly weaker than normal carbons in almost every scenario.
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Depends⌠On the playerâŚ
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When all mainline antag have inherent access to EMP (BB and rev being the exception, but the logistics of creating handmade EMP is easy-ish on rev, and BB sucks anyway). The only thing I would do is buff EMP blob with a bigger radius, and give some sort of anti-electronics to xenos (maybe make neurotoxin stun borg, and some AOE on queen and prae).
If slowdown on damage is so important, we could trade the decrease of module slot with damage for that, which would make emergency work less ass, while still gimping combat.
They do have to at least get the piercing injector upgrade to do that through armor, they canât even inject custom chems via beaker because the syringe attachment isnât a piercing one
I think in general theyâre decent in combat, but without being engaged only three are effective in damage output with the tools they have: Med, Eng, and mining. Peace borg and arenât that effective offensively (peace borg is very good with supporting though), ever try to beat down a monkey attacking a human with just a flash and a mop? Honestly I just wish that all borgs had full size fire extinguishers and not the mini ones, prevents them from fully killing a single slime with them and really being help when it comes to even smaller fires. Also having a full size extinguisher would give every borg a medium robust tool to beat monkeys with.
Maybe have borgs suffer similar malfunctions like mechs have when theyâre injured (but you can actually fix them)? Would at least make sense if youâre beating one up that it would begun having mobility and tool use issues. Could also have materials spilled on the ground effect borgs, like lube would make them move a tile or two further when they try to stop for a few seconds, or even completely gunk up the wheels requiring them to take a shower to wash it off the wheels, and spray paint their eyes to blind them and limit their vision to the same degree as a welding mask until they get it washed off in a shower.
Laser pointer is a instant ranged stun on cyborgs
You can own warops cyborgs that way quite easily
also
>balancing ss13 like a moba
I think we should nerf mining instead
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Swarmers cant harm borgs⌠please let swarmers eat borgs
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