Chem dispensers, Synthflesh and the issue with both concepts

petition to replace chemistry with a bag full of bombs and stetchkins

As far as i know, Ruko’s part one of that is indeed a reagents and status overhaul, where it essentially changes how most chemicals works.

Fermichem is… really complex to port, however if there’s a thing i do like is the following standardization:

which makes medical chems more easy to distinguish really (I’m looking at you Corazone, you’re supposed to fix the Heart, not the Liver)

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Oh you are talking about combat. I taught we where talking about medbay. I have never seen that though. It would be semi situational when you have a fight where you have time to heal.

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a synthflesh patch timewise and resource wise is more cost efficient and overall better than a ling’s fleshmend, and by FAR. The 2-3 seconds required to apply the patch are really not impossible to find/acquire. Especially since it works over hardsuits, meaning any combat in space boils down to hit and run, apply synthflesh, hit and run, …

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That’s a ramification of synthflesh aswell, but that can also apply to any other chem the fact that somehow, a patch can pass trough a layer of armor (especially considering how currently synthflesh works, which is to prioritize the healing of the limb you applied the patch, heal the rest later); meaning that’s also an issue related on how patches works.

I didn’t say that is not a good healing chem. I said that from the perspective of medbay it’s not really relevant, and from the perspective of combat it’s situational.

This is not true. Not all fight in space are “open” like that when both parties can engage and disengage at will. They can be. But they can also just instantly end.

I think you guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill. I simply do not recall when synthflesh was a big factor. I can recall for nanites, virology, robo, gene, xenobio, certain traitor tools… All those are more relevant that synthflesh.

I don’t want to be rude, but I genuinely think you lack awareness of combat and/or medical on bee if you think a funny infinite plumbing synthflesh 40u patch dispenser wasn’t insanely OP, bypassed all needs for meds and was a huge crutch in combat, while also rendering medical useless except for dead bodies they have to defib … before slapping a synth patch instantly on them once defibbed so they’re back to full health in seconds.

but to be fair, OP med stuff that only affects brute & burn damage isn’t that noticeable because every other chem is already broken and renders healing uninteresting

I don’t think is insanely OP compered to other thing I see used EVERY round. Synthflesh I have rarely, if ever seen. In combat or otherwise. Whether it’s OP in a theoretical sense is not relevant. Even the much talked about synthflesh factory I have only seen like twice. It’s pointless to discuss balance of certain reagents in our current medical system anyway.

If you removed every reagent from the game except charcoal (for toxin and purge), the current average healing process stays the same. We have no trauma and no wounds and we still have bruise packs and ointments. Tend wound bellow 180 damage, defib and then fix with generic supplies. Reagents make the process faster and easier, but it’s not impossible to heal everyone with those basic tools.

You have not said the one thing that makes synthflesh special when makes me question your awareness. Synthflesh can be used on dead bodies unlike every other reagent. It can theoretically let you skip the tend process and thous drastically speed up the revival process in some situations or if you have a truly infinite supply really let you skip the tend part even if the body is really messed up.

I don’t lack awareness to see that it’s a potent reagent. I am telling you from all my medical and my security hours that I simple have not seen it be relevant at all. I have never had the taught “curse that OP synthflesh”. I have had a lot of thoughts about other departments.

Synthflesh is fine as it is for now, without a whole medical rework/revaluation.
Just as the post said, might be a good idea to at least try lowering the unhusk thresh hold and od threshold. Hopefully this makes synthflesh incentives unhusking than directly cloning.

I usually try to get around not making synthflesh and send people to get cloned because unhusking costs too much synthflesh and since the cost is so damn high by that point I may as well make a factory for it.

I like chem and all but for me to make a factory just for synthflesh nowadays is too annoying. I just tell people to order it from cargo.

On my opinon, SF as stands right now it’s powerful, too powerful.
To quote Howluinb, Space combat is one of the big issues, since it remove the environmental issue of healing up while in combat, with little to no drawback (see stamina).

Care to define which other chemical are used currently over Synthflesh?

There’s organ damage, but that’s next to negligible, same for bleeding, or Bone breaking (which we don’t have). That’s another issue mainly related to the Old medical system.

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Are you talking about combat or medbay work? If you are talking about medbay see my previous posts. If you are talking about combat like I said fights where… You know what whatever It wont matter soon anyway. I simply do not think this is a priority issue and it will change soon anyway.

As a matter of fact, Healing in combat is the same as medbay combat when it boils to healing patches, I highly doubt you can pull surgery in combat unless you’re a batshit insane paramedic.

Edit: I also think that this whole thread matters ultimately for properly tweaking chemical tools that otherwise would be too powerful.

Last year Synthflesh used to be a scourge… and I’m not exactly innocent in that regard.

I would either build a factory during rotations or just make one if no chemists showed up to carry medical for that day

When 90% of the damage coming through the door is brute/burn and you have a 1 click solution that’s readily available and easy to make. why would you not use it?
Even after the 120OD it was still readily used. safe use was still 3 [39u] patches because they couldn’t lower it below unhusk, or didn’t want lower to either OD or threshold

Even still now. 1 [40u] Patch will heal 40 brute and 40 burn while applying 80 stamina damage if I’m reading this right:

image

As someone who reflected after abusing the shit out of it. No. I don’t believe its acceptable even with the removal of everything else enabling it. Its just a bad chemical in a vacuum.
Making it harder to make or lowering the safe dose will do little to change what’s wrong with it.
Synthflesh NEEDS to exist in the round for other reasons so it will always be made or supplied

Just to prove a point I went and made a synth factory in 15 min. Blood dupe being lost didn’t stop me and in fact, just made the matter cartridge requirement less.

Synthflesh experiment

Meta station: Starting equipment. 4 Constructors and 6 CMC
Extra equipment needed: 3 CMC, 1 Monkey, 1 IV drip, Handcuffs

Set up:

Final result:
Carbon drained at 4x rate from average
Hydrogen and Oxygen drained at 2x rate from average
Minor variance in the rest. Most sat at 300 by experiment end as carbon ran out and Monkey expired.

Yield: 40 patches of synthflesh [40u] (1600u)
Total yield theorised at 160 patches (6400u) per a full cycle consisting of 14 CMC and up to 5 monkeys/donors

Theorised healing potential between 6400-12800 damage

This is clearly not a problem

side note: Meiler ruined my old synth set up but not in the way they wanted, I used to mix everything outside of ammonia and blood in one but it now creates Meclizine in the process :^) had to tweak design slightly but still as compact

Edit:
Conclusion: Remove the healing from synthflesh, its not needed anymore as there are methods for bringing corpses into defib range via surgery. It should only be cloner/limb-grower juice and anti-husker.
I don’t see you winning against synth factories unless you do something drastic against the source itself

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On the PH and purity system we agree. It makes the process of making chems more… chemistry like?

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Wow, that’s a fucking awesome idea.

I agree with pretty much all of this. Chems need SoPs for plumbing. it’s just a fact.

SF being what most people were booty bothered about seems to be true, for anyone that’s not just being belligerent.

Regardless thanks for keeping the communication going.

So reading this I’m getting the impression that Meiler’s PR did very little to actually stop the worst offending fac?

I had to think a little more efficiently but… Yes… Results are documented.
I don’t see the issue with the production but the chems themselves.

Synthflesh is an insta-heal, It does not take time to process, the OD only acting as a psudo cooldown which can also be purged efficiently for more healing capacity

Glad to hear that, since nowadays a lot of ideas/tweaking threads are popping up like mushroom due to this issue spearheading it and the only good way to keep up with those is to keep a stable communication with the community, let it be here or the discord.

To be fair, and I am gonna take a jab at what Syrox wrote after your post, overall it just reduced the efficiency on the production, yet the result is till the very much same, the OP chems that where the root of the nerf are still there, and sure even without the blood dupe bug it doesn’t help that you can really make high end omnipatches that will make you heal immediately, with OD just being a pseudo cooldown since it get absorbed really, REALLY fast (unless fully healed that is, then the consumption is 1.0 units per tick, which is still very fast for what it is).

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I’m going to throw out my synthflesh concept again:

Synthflesh is not perfect and doesn’t always stop when it finishes healing.

Using Synthflesh would increase the chance of developing random body traumas, internal organs, brain damage, random cellular damage, even a limb mutating itself into uselessness.

Again, would make synthflesh a last ditch heal instead of a cureall. Plus being cloned makes you much more likely to get fucked up.

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