Bolas need to be nerfed & buffed

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So, I am doing this thread not as a beg for coding - i’ll probably try and tackle this soon when i’ll start/finish my katana PR that’s still in the drafts yet nearly finished.

However, I do want to bring up a few points about bolas, see if anyone agrees they should be a priority (and maybe code something about it faster than I could), and see points that are brought up which i didn’t think of.

So :

  • Bolas were hard-nerfed into the ground semi-recently, removing the stun portion (good), and removing the disarm (good on paper).

  • However, nothing was done about the energy bola, which its strength didn’t lie in its effectiveness, but in its availability. The dragnet generates them infinitely, the ebolas are easily printable, and they still fully accomplish the job sec needs - stun and disarm were a plus.

  • Right now, ANY melee combat is just… not preferrable. While bolas don’t disarm or stun, they still provide massive slowdown with an (in combat, extremely) long cooldown for removal.
    → For sec, this means an easy ability to slow down an escaping melee opponent, with no drawbacks, as they will be unable to flee/fight back and eat all the funny shotgun pellets in the face while they’re forced to stand there and watched. Melee cannot ever win against ranged with funny bola, even by surprise.
    → For melee antags, this means either having to constantly be on throw mode just in case (tough luck if they use the dragnet), and even if you own a bola yourself, you will only slow them down. But they don’t give a shit about being slowed down if they’re holding a shotgun and planning to pump you full of lead anyways - all you’re accomplishing is offering yourself a tiny window of escape. This still means you’ll keep being chased and at one point or another, bolaed, leading straight into an L. Fun times.

  • And this leads to the fact there is no real counter to bolas. Unlike flashbangs nerf which lead to the fact even sec couldn’t have an easy win button against non overprepared antags, the bola nerf only made sec stronger -
    Their ebolas don’t fully go away with an emp. As it’s rng based IIRC, due to how sparse emps are (1 per cult spell, 3 per implant, twenty seconds per ling), they are still an efficient counter against anyone who didn’t plan to have a fully ranged weapon for whatever melee gimmicks they wished to do.
    The throw mode thing isn’t even that good of a counter, because it doesn’t do shit against two bolas thrown in a row ultra fast.
    And I think it still hasn’t been fixed - but blocking weapons/shields still do not block bolas. They still go right through.
    A sec packing bolas and weapons is a sec who is winning in front of a non-ranged antag.

  • Here’s a list of antags currently rendered extremely hard to play as thanks to the bola meta : Revs, Cultists (their only advantage is number, which is quickly countered if found early, most of them not having access to ranged weapons), Melee Lings, Martial Arts traitors/nukies (or any other melee gimmicks), Nightmare, Heretics

So, to end this list off - here are the ideas I have for implementing fixes to the current bola problem i believe is important :

  • Make bolas blockable by shields, weapons, sleeping carp.
  • Ebolas give a slowdown, maybe a bit weaker, that goes away on its own after a few seconds or so. No longer an instant win button but still a considerable advantage in a fight.
  • Dragnet need to be modified - their infinite spamming bolas removed. My idea was to have it lay traps on the floor, taking maybe 1 to 2 seconds to activate, with a very visible visual, then have it function as a trap, stunning people walking on there for 1-2 seconds - without disarm. Perfect for planning encounters and a fun tool if pulled off well, still not a funny instant win button.
  • Being on throw mode now blocks all bolas, no matter if your hands are full - if they are, the bolas instead falls onto the ground - as you deflect it with your equipped weapon.
  • EMPs now automatically destroy all energy bolas in their radius - The ones present in backpacks/on self having a rng chance to be gone, the ones currently restraining a person completely gone.
  • Buff antag bolas a bit if all the above can’t be modified - at least make cult bolas disarm, giving it stun is a terrible idea but allowing it to fuck over ranged people with strong weapons for a few seconds while they fumble to grab their gear is, imo, good
  • Make ebolas cost more to print ? Right now, they’re dirt cheap and can be easily researched/mass crafted 20 seconds into a round. That’s no bueno.

As always, please share your thoughts or tell me if i’m a big dumb stupid idiot loser. thanks in advance!

EDIT : Oh, also, bear trap should not take 40 seconds to remove for a soap-like item (really easy to deploy) with huge slowdown and bleed effect

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- obligatory post calling this a skill issue -

Have you considered trying to enable throw with an empty hand?

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Shitpost out of the way, I would love if the dragnet worked as a deployable trap with infinite, but a limited number of active deployments (kinda like atmos holofan, but with traps instead of fans)

I do also like this suggestion.

My initial reaction to it was “well everyone would just keep throw on” but in practice that likely results in accidentally disarming yourself a lot.

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Have you considered trying to enable throw with an empty hand?

mentioned several times, useless when you enable throw, catch one bola, then immediately have another thrown at you (which you cant do shit about, your hand is open)

I would love if the dragnet worked as a deployable trap

Same. I came up with the idea while writing the post, but it just works really well with the idea of “trap & capture criminals to be sent back to brig”. Which is infinitely more interesting than “ahah infinite ebola spam (uncatchable too lole)”

My initial reaction to it was “well everyone would just keep throw on” but in practice that likely results in accidentally disarming yourself a lot.

Ahah yeah, exactly my thought. Antag man thinks he’s robust keeps throw on constantly, throws his esword at the feet of sec man.

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I hate bolas quite a lot in melee fights, but I still like them for slowing down enemies moving at mach 10 like a ninja nerd.

Possible easier fix then all this is just make it slow down to something slightly slower then normal running speed.

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Lowering the slowdown is another solution, yes, but itd affect every type of bola, when, really, the most problematic one is the ebola

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Please, buff cult bola, or add an option for cult to counter ranged non-energy weapons

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Maybe a spell to disable ranged weapon 3 tile around the caster for short time (with some drawback to the caster)? to force everyone to glorious melee combat (or to at least prepare for one).

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Cultists already have a very versatile kit, very powerful in raw combat with the Bola, shielded Armour and desword tier sharpenned sword, able to disengage at any point with teleporting, have combat healing with blood rites and can turn off the entirety of a sec officers kit with an EMP, if ballistics didn’t work against them they’d just be impossible to fight

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the issue with nerfing bolas is that the current combat meta is to be as fast as possible, stimmed up or otherwise. Bolas are required to bring changelings with adrenals + strained muscles to a normal speed, or a chemist with meth, or a traitor, so on. I like the solution serket posted - make bola slowdown to slightly below running speed, no matter what speed you were initially. if you’re methed up, super effective. If you’re not, it won’t do much.

This would make bolas more of a situational counter to those speedy fuckers, and would actually make it MORE effective for that task, but it wouldn’t be something that you reach for every fight

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