I am going to be honest, one of the reasons I did this was because how utterly boring medbots are.
if a patient that is barely standing walks into medbay I don’t have the slightest chance to even make small talk with them before a bot goes on in and fixes all their issues.
This bot practically makes medbay soley exist for fixing death, viruses and organ related issues.
Damage should actually mean something, if you get hurt you should actively cause the station to lose something other than 5 seconds of your time. Getting hurt should be feared not just because the admins told you to roleplay but because it should have an actual impact other than becoming a corpse
this is argueably a problem of the medical system but thats not going to get fixed overnight
At least wait until you’ve played around with it, “things like this tend to just be baseless hypothesizing. I’d much rather actually see the change in the gameplay and then talk about what I liked/disliked about it after” sums it up perfectly
Please remember that the bleeding rework will happen. Which will make wounds extremely more deadly. This, the bleeding rework and the Health Scanner PR together would cause an apocalyptic event if they were all to be merged.
I like the idea of making chemists more relevant to the use of medbots, but I’m not a fan of this since it feels like it’s overcomplicating a thing on a for-beginners/less mechanics braining server.
If the problem is medbots trivializing basic treatment, why not just adjust the healing thresholds they work under? Instead of trying to bring people under 5 damage at best, whta about making it 30 or whatever? Then people are still highly encouraged to go to a doctor/spend actual resources on healing at all since it’ll just keep them alive/conscious enough to get there and that’s about it. It does triage, it keeps people from bleeding out, it keeps limbs working so people aren’t left with two broken arms and broken legs, but without making the resource spend unnecessary.
Also this I really like this as an extra bot rather than the only bot
to help with chemistry manegement I’ve re-added research upgrades
medbots now have efficiency, starting at 10%, working similiar to sleepers
medbots can now have up to 60% efficiency, saving more than half the chems they use
Although I fear that they could just end up being thrown aside like many other features, in which they’re ignored unless used for antagonistic action. Given that they COULD be pretty high mainteance for not that big of an output.
What would be interesting would be more of these highly specific function bots, to be programmed like nanites with triggers, for example a bot would only inject a specific chemical upon detecting a threshold of damage (this could also serve as more robotics/sci content and paving way to the removal of nanites) (HOWEVER i can’t code so this idea is as worth as dirt)
There is no reason to use reagent medbots over existing one if we keep both.
Medbots should be:
a tool that assists in medical care
a tool that enhances player interaction
a tool that adds depth to medbay and/or robotics
Current medbots fulfil the first of these quite well, so well in fact that it could be argued that a medbot is all that most players will ever need to stay healthy. As of the PR associated with this thread they still do this job quite well, just in a different way - they’re (by default) effectively an automatic epi pen dispenser - I’m sure I don’t need to stress how useful an epi pen is at saving players.
Current medbots not only do not fulfil the second, they go in the wrong direction - being able to completely replace player interaction in the vast majority of cases. New medbots do not, even by default. They stabilize or otherwise fulfil a function they are configured for, and configuring them takes input and creates interaction within the department too, not just with patients.
Finally, medbots again actively go in the wrong direction on the third point right now. They take away from the department with how they provide care and with just a little bit of research can invalidate most medbay depth except for revivals and a handful of edge cases. Trying to find a good mix and how to configure a medbot or medbots adds a lot of depth for chemists to interact with so they aren’t purely filling a cabinet or else making drugs.
That seems a little dramatic. There will be an adjustment period for sure but none of them really do all that much, it’s not like we’re talking wounds here.
You don’t really need a health scanner in most situations if you want to get technical. Examine them and it’ll tell you if they’re low blood, burnt up, or bruised up. Tend wounds/apply patches/sleeper/pills, if they still are still hurt bad it’s probably suffocation or toxin. Look at them, are they gasping? If they are, CPR or medpen time. If it’s toxins same thing as before, sleeper or pills. There are exceptions of course for organ damage, mutations, disease, and the like but those are far less common than the average assistant coming in with 40 burn damage.
If you put in the effort the new medbots can be mildly stronger than the old ones since you can freely stuff them full of a god mix without worrying about overdosing anyone.
Bleeding is probably the biggest nerf/buff, since your only options to deal with it are to lose a hand or pray you remembered to power game bandages.
There are always exceptions of course, like disease and organ damage but those are rare compared to the common 30 brute damage cases.
Only a fraction of medical players, are actually competent enough and well versed in most of medical. (i.e game knowledge of surgery, chemistry, diseases and player conditions).
it sucks but kinda but like science, especially during medium/high pop people who join the role only join for its access or they’re new to the role. they’re just basically another assistant by that point
I think everyone needs to remember that this server is still for “new players!!!”. Starting and joining a role already takes alot of courage for these new players and we want to make sure that we don’t try to implement things that might turn off these players both old and new.
There always a gap in numbers engineering players & security(in lowpop) compared to every other role. Not only is it difficult to do their job when starting out, but simply too confusing for them without a guide that alot of players actively avoid the role. (I’m speaking from my experience of back when I initially tried learning engineering for a couple times and just stopped bad experiences for like a year).
Hope fully everyone else keeps this in mind like Ambiic here.
Then again… you don’t need to know how a medibot works.
“These things heal you” is enough 99% of the time. Even now it might take you by surprise when it has been emagged and you fall victim to it and die.
And if you join a chemist there may be an unspoken rule and expectation for you to refill these, but this will be made clear with time when you talk to people or they talk to you.
Might get a doctor asking for antitoxin. Might get a roboticists come by say “fill these up!”, might even get a clown ask “hey, can I get 100u meth put into this medibot?”. It is an obstacle and it is not difficult to overcome it. New and old people alike will learn by talking to one another.
Even now we’re talking. All of us here got a pretty good idea of the functionality of the bot. Once it is merged we might be the teachers to share this “new NT cut/innovation”!
My ideal solution to the problem is a combination of this:
This way, medibots can be used roundstart through early midround to keep people semi-healthy both in and out of medbay, and later in the round chembots can be made to increase speed, efficiency, and overall crew health, or people can speedrun chembots if that’s their thing.
I don’t like the idea of completely axing things from the game, that should be a last resort. We should always try to change and modify older things to fit with new architecture, before simply throwing them away.
A’ight, I’m throwing the glove down and pulling out the history on this. Everyone acting like this is the end of the world or claiming this is making the game less newbie friendly needs to familiarize themselves with the history of this change, the server and read the fine print.
This isn’t removing anything. This is how medbots used to work, were proven to work fine, and used to engage a lot more of the station.
It literally says in the PR that this is a partial reversion of another PR which made medibots use tend wounds instead of using reagents. The big difference is that now the reagents can be customized instead of only using baby’s first reagents and being always weak.
Quoted from the current PR:
And from the original PR which adjusted medbots:
And here is the excerpt showing the literal beaker storage being removed from medbots from that original PR.
Reagent medbots has already been thoroughly tested and worked fine during Beestation history, this was changed during a fairly dark period in our coding history where removing interactions and watering down the game so players didn’t have to rely on each other as much was seen as beneficial. This was changed by a notorious security main who hated making themselves vulnerable to antagonists and wanted to be able to heal himself without relying on other players.
This change came in the same period when Golden players surged into the RP server and decided RP was dumb and they shouldn’t have to interact with each other in meaningful ways.
This change same period which brought us bluespace miners to completely bypass shaft miners.
This is a proven good state for medibots to be in that worked very well in the past for many more years than the current medibots which use tend wounds have.
I never said this was the end of the world, this is just an SS13 server. If things go in a direction I dislike, I’ll just hop servers. I’m just making my opinion heard. And before you interpret that as some sort of ultimatum or threat, it’s not. I just wanted to voice an opinion on this topic because I like this server.
I won’t even fight you on the other stuff you said, I was wrong, I didn’t know medibots used to work like that. I just don’t know where this hostility is coming from, there’s no need to throw down any gauntlet. I’m not here to argue. All I did was suggest a change.