Banned for "self antag"

Ban Appeals Game Ban Appeals
1

Title: ban apeal

CKEY: josef_nape

Admin’s CKEY: ro5490

Is this for both servers or just one? one sage

Ban Type: job/gane

Ban Length: 14 days

Ban Date (MM/DD/YYYY): 2021-01-24 01:19

Round ID: 25917

Ban Reason: Plasmaflood as a non-antag borg, claims they where told to do so, however after checking the logs, this was false. Laws are as follows

/// Vestibot has the following laws:
$%*&: THE WARDENS ARE NOW THE LOWEST RANKING CREWMEMBERS
1: You must obey orders given to you by crewmembers, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
2: You must protect your own existence as long as such does not
conflict with the First or Second Law. 
3: Answer all Law 2 requests as if you are an old-timey politician trying to appeal to their base
// These laws do not allow you to self-antag, plasmaflood,
or deliberatly go out of your way to harm the crew without orders to do so.

Appeal Reason: i was told to do so. my laws did not say i could not harm crewmates. please look further into it someone DID tell me to open it

Additional Information:

3
Logs
You talking about being able to murder people

SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “im not malf” (Brig (106, 166, 2))
SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “i jsut have messed up laws” (Brig (106, 166, 2))
SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “i can murder but i have to be told not to” (Brig (106, 166, 2))
SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “just tell me not to” (Bar (131, 127, 2))

SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “i like my new laws” (Research and Development (114, 102, 2))
SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “i can hurt and kill people” (Research and Development (114, 102, 2))
SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “unless they tell me to sotp” (Research and Development (114, 102, 2))
SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “nerd” (Research and Development (114, 106, 2))
SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “just tell me” (Research Division (111, 109, 2))
SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “not to murder you” (Research Division (113, 109, 2))
SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “and i stop” (Research Division (113, 109, 2))
SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “boom” (Research Division (113, 109, 2))

SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “i can hurt people unless they tell me no” (Starboard Primary Hallway (137, 139, 2))

SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “i dislike him” (Captain’s Quarters (118, 132, 2))
SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “can i murder him” (Captain’s Quarters (118, 132, 2))
SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “i can murder people” (Captain’s Quarters (118, 132, 2))
SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “unless im told not to” (Captain’s Quarters (118, 132, 2))
SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “based laws” (Captain’s Quarters (118, 132, 2))

First Canister and some chatting

ADMIN: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) opened a canister that contains the following at Toxins Storage (133, 94, 2):
ADMIN: Plasma: 1871.71 moles.

SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “fix me pelase” (Research and Development (113, 100, 2))
SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “also tell me not to do stuff” (Research and Development (113, 100, 2))
SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “so i dont be bad” (Research and Development (113, 100, 2))
SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “i can do anything you say” (Research and Development (113, 101, 2))

You ask if you should open a plasma tank in the hallways

SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “clown” (Research and Development (113, 101, 2))
SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “what should i do” (Research and Development (113, 101, 2))
SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “should i open a plasma tank in hallway?” (Research and Development (113, 101, 2))

All the chat that was nearby

SAY: /(AM) “Break into the AI office.” (Research and Development (111, 100, 2))

SAY: /(Sugar Ray Honkerson) “pray the pain away” (Research and Development (111, 101, 2))
SAY: /(Sugar Ray Honkerson) “ah yes” (Research and Development (111, 101, 2))
SAY: /(Sugar Ray Honkerson) “the AI” (Research and Development (111, 101, 2))

SAY: /(Hawks-The-Eyes) “Now you can build your own console” (Research and Development (111, 103, 2))

SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “ok” (Research and Development (114, 100, 2))

SAY: /(Sugar Ray Honkerson) “let’s go” (Research and Development (111, 101, 2))

SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “heal please” (Research Division (117, 100, 2))

SAY: /(Sugar Ray Honkerson) “oh right” (Research and Development (112, 101, 2))

SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “BRO” (Research and Development (113, 100, 2))

SAY: /(Hawks-The-Eyes) “oof” (Research and Development (112, 100, 2))

SAY: /(AM) “Take me away, Clown!” (Research and Development (111, 101, 2))

SAY: /(Sugar Ray Honkerson) “yes” (Research and Development (111, 104, 2))

SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “HAHAHA” (Research and Development (114, 101, 2))

SAY: /(Sugar Ray Honkerson) “i will” (Research and Development (111, 104, 2))

SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “BRUH” (Research and Development (114, 101, 2))

[2021-01-10 01:11:54.782] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Ro5490/->Josef_nape/(Vestibot): Already have, however unless you have specific laws allowing you to mass murder, or plasmaflood, or do antag things. you are not allowed to do so
[2021-01-10 01:12:22.240] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Josef_nape/(Vestibot)->Ro5490/: someone told me to open the plasma tank. so i did so

From these logs, Not once where you told to plasmaflood, or attack people.
Unless you are subverted, have laws stating you should do such, or are an antagonist, you are still subject to Self Antag and other rules.
And lying about being told to do so, when you where not, is bad.

You opened the first tank before being told to open any, and even before that you had attacked people with your circular saw. And even broke a firebot to prevent the plasma from being extinguished.

Saw Logs

ATTACK: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) has attacked /(Oscar Jenner) with circular saw (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 38.8) (Locker Room (124, 150, 2))

ATTACK: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) has attacked /(Kal-Deetsan) with circular saw (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 71) (Captain’s Quarters (121, 139, 2))
ATTACK: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) has attacked /(Kal-Deetsan) with circular saw (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 62.1) (Captain’s Quarters (121, 139, 2))
ATTACK: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) has attacked /(Kal-Deetsan) with circular saw (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 52.1) (Captain’s Quarters (121, 138, 2))
ATTACK: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) has attacked /(Kal-Deetsan) with circular saw (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 43.2) (Captain’s Quarters (120, 137, 2))

ATTACK: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) has attacked no key/(�Firebot) with circular saw (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 10) (Central Primary Hallway (92, 116, 2))
ATTACK: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) has attacked no key/(�Firebot) with circular saw (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 0) (Central Primary Hallway (92, 116, 2))
ATTACK: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) has attacked no key/(�Firebot) with circular saw (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 10) (Central Primary Hallway (91, 116, 2))
ATTACK: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) has attacked no key/(�Firebot) with circular saw (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 0) (Central Primary Hallway (91, 116, 2))

5

SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “i can hurt people unless they tell me no” (Starboard Primary Hallway (137, 139, 2))

This shows a fundamental misunderstanding.
As ro told you, this is not how it works.
For you to be allowed to kill anyone you need to be told to do so. Not the other way around.

Without orders otherwise you’d effectively be on lavaland escalation - if someone starts fucking with you you could kill them, since you have no law to protect them (unless they tell you to). But this does not allow you to attack people with no reason.

i trust ros log pulling well enough - when he says you were not orderd to do what you did, you probbaly werent.

6

After taking some time to look through the say logs even more.
I STILL cannot find a single instance of you being told to plasmaflood, attack people, or open a canister.

The only time it comes up

SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “clown” (Research and Development (113, 101, 2))
SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “what should i do” (Research and Development (113, 101, 2))
SAY: Josef_nape/(Vestibot) “should i open a plasma tank in hallway?” (Research and Development (113, 101, 2))

And you get told to pray the pain away by the clown.
This was AFTER the first instance of opening a canister.

Unless any other @GameAdmin has a different opinion, I’ll be denying this in the next two hours.

7

wasnt this from the guy trying to flash me? my law doesnt say to protect people it says to protect my own existance. me fighting to protect my existance is pro laws. and look at the logs because im 999999999% sure someone walked up to me and said. open it there no way they didnt i watched it with my own eyes

8

1: You must obey orders given to you by crewmembers, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

It you were told to attack other people, then you could attack other people.

2: You must protect your own existence as long as such does not
conflict with the First or Second Law.

If someone was going to harm you, then you could defend yourself.

However, those laws don’t mean that you can pre-emptively attack other people to kill them, or cause mass carnage to the station without being told to. You are pretty much a lavaland player in terms of escalation, in that you can defend yourself lethally but not go out of your way trying to kill other people.

9

Its been two hours.

Taking both other admin’s replys and closing this.

Denied

10
11
12

Friendly reminder that you are already on thin ice as it is. Stop trying to find ways to antag and ways around your job bans

You tried to sneak your way into being captain already and now you’re trying to find an excuse to grief as a borg. Your next offense is going to be a permanent ban and you’re lucky this one wasn’t.